Ordering a new card tomorrow...

[Toss3]

As I said min fps don't mean anything unless you can prove that the framrate dipped that low for longer than 1/60 of a second. 5800 series are prone to some stuttering as proven by the xtremesystems' microstuttering thread.

[Slytat]

Originally Posted by Toss3

As I said min fps don't mean anything unless you can prove that the framrate dipped that low for longer than 1/60 of a second.

There is a great deal of debate about min fps and it's validity at this point but I think that it is relevant (provided it is measured as an average) and given my experiences with both cards, the 4x0 series is generally a stronger performer in that respect.

[Maverick123w]

After reading through countless reviews I think I'm going to go with a 470. Especially when overclocked to 700 core (which seems attainable) the mins are much much higher than the 5x00 series cards, and a smooth experience is paramount to me.

I'm glad I went back and looked at the mins because it really paints a different picture than I originally saw between the 470 and 5850.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

[Kaguya]

I've been eyeing a 5970 to change things up, but still thinking a pair of 470s would be fun. Still don't see any EVGA's available though, and I'm not sure I'm ready to try Zotac or another brand (love precision and EVGA's support).

But you're right, looking at the mins definitely paints a different picture of things; still, I haven't run an ATi in what must be 5 or 6 years; could be worth a lark?

[kaptkarl]

This is an NVidia fan site so when asked the question most here are going to say Nvidia. Go to Rage and the result will be the same in reverse. I say do your own research, look at multiple reviews from NON-BIASED web sites and make your choice accordingly.

See how quickly this tread got derailed into a Nvidia vs. ATI debate? My point exactly.

Kapt

[Slytat]

Originally Posted by kaptkarl

This is an NVidia fan site so when asked the question most here are going to say Nvidia. Go to Rage and the result will be the same in reverse. I say do your own research, look at multiple reviews from NON-BIASED web sites and make your choice accordingly.

See how quickly this tread got derailed into a Nvidia vs. ATI debate? My point exactly.

Kapt

I don't see any 'derailing' going on in this thread. Simply people giving their first hand experiences and offering advice.

[brunner]

Originally Posted by Maverick123w

After reading through countless reviews I think I'm going to go with a 470. Especially when overclocked to 700 core (which seems attainable) the mins are much much higher than the 5x00 series cards, and a smooth experience is paramount to me.

I'm glad I went back and looked at the mins because it really paints a different picture than I originally saw between the 470 and 5850.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!

I think you've made the right choice. After doing some research and pondering on my experiences with the 5870s the last 6 months, I believe the 470 will provide a better experience 80% of the time. The 5870s are fast but they just aren't reliably smooth. Every so often, there'll be a hitch that takes me out of my immersion. I've even noticed it in benchmarks where the framerate is still close to 60. The slowdown is not picked up by fraps but it's definitely there. 6 months from release, I don't believe that ATI will ever fix those issues.

[Blacklash]

The thing I've noticed with 5870 Crossfire X is if I get occasional hard hitching in a title it's at 1920x1200 with AA active. To go back to STALKER CoP; 1920x1200 all on/enabled save AA = smooth with good mins, 1400x900 all on/enabled with AA = smooth with good mins, 1920x1200 all on/enabled with AA = occasional hard hitching that ruins my mins.

It's possible the 470 does better in these situations due to its larger memory interface and higher amount of ram. It could also be a driver issue. I'm not sure.

The OP specifically mentions the 470 and 5850. Those are indeed his best choices. All my "derailing" was intended mostly to discuss min FPS between those two offerings in single and MGPU configurations. Often folks who want added performance may pick up an additional card for SLi/Crossfire later so considering that is relevant. Overclocked 5850 Crossfire performs remarkably similiar to 5870 Crossfire so I added my own experiences which reflect what a good deal of reviewers are reporting.

Yet again, IMO 34/55 is more desirable and reflective of a possible smooth gaming experience than 20/70. Games always feel more sluggish to me when FPS dips to 25 or lower for whatever the reason. I feel 30FPS mins or higher are desirable. Yes, that's all opinion and preference.

I'm not an "nVidia fan boy". My graphics card history is below. You may add triple HD 5870 Crossfire to the end.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpo...&postcount=201

I've got an EVGA 470 arriving Monday for computer 2, so I will be able to offer opinion based on direct experience with it soon.

In any case, I hope you enjoy whatever card you finally decide on purchasing

[Johnny C]

Originally Posted by Blacklash

The thing I've noticed with 5870 Crossfire X is if I get occasional hard hitching in a title it's at 1920x1200 with AA active. To go back to STALKER CoP; 1920x1200 all on/enabled save AA = smooth with good mins, 1400x900 all on/enabled with AA = smooth with good mins, 1920x1200 all on/enabled with AA = occasional hard hitching that ruins my mins.

It's possible the 470 does better in these situations due to its larger memory interface and higher amount of ram. It could also be a driver issue. I'm not sure.

The OP specifically mentions the 470 and 5850. Those are indeed his best choices. All my "derailing" was intended mostly to discuss min FPS between those two offerings in single and MGPU configurations. Often folks who want added performance may pick up an additional card for SLi/Crossfire later so considering that is relevant. Overclocked 5850 Crossfire performs remarkably similiar to 5870 Crossfire so I added my own experiences which reflect what a good deal of reviewers are reporting.

Yet again, IMO 34/55 is more desirable and reflective of a possible smooth gaming experience than 20/70. Games always feel more sluggish to me when FPS dips to 25 or lower for whatever the reason. I feel 30FPS mins or higher are desirable. Yes, that's all opinion and preference.

I'm not an "nVidia fan boy". My graphics card history is below. You may add triple HD 5870 Crossfire to the end.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpo...&postcount=201

I've got an EVGA 470 arriving Monday for computer 2, so I will be able to offer opinion based on direct experience with it soon.

In any case, I hope you enjoy whatever card you finally decide on purchasing

Looking forward to hear your opinion since you can make a very direct comparison.

IMHO I wouldn't consider the 470 at all, it just seems to lack a real price/performance point of it's own. A 480 seems to be a really good option, especially if you're set up for the added nV feature set.

I also agree with the min fps being caused by the 5000 series vram limitation, once we see more 2gb cards in the field, this will become obvious. Sapphire's toxic 5970 4gb has something like 30% more performance than the vanilla 5970 2GB. This leads me to believe the hitching/stuttering you mentioned isn't a bandwidth issue it's a frame buffer size issue.

I look forward to hearing the OP's results with his new card.

Also that heaven benchmark is now pretty much pointless. It's been altered so that you can "tessellation limit" the Ati cards, which have a fixed function tesselator, and showcase nV's integrated tessellation solution. That would be fine, however, we have no info as to how nV's tessellation works in extremely shader intensive as well as tessellation intensive situations. With the ATi cards, tessellation is done separately from any shader workload.

[Maverick123w]

I'll be sure to give my opinion but coming from a 128 bit, 512MB card to a 470 is going to be insane. So unless I get a dead card (knock on wood) I'm sure it will be a glowing review.

[Maverick123w]

Also looking at eyefinity 6 reviews I doubt the mins will be any higher than the 1GB cards.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...mance_review/3

It takes eyefinity resolutions to see a difference between a 5870 1GB and a 5870 2GB and even then it's only in 1 game. In every other game the min fps is exactly the same.

Maybe it's the 256bit bus holding the cards back?

[Blacklash]

I don't use Heaven as a metric either. Heaven uses the same tessellation factor for all triangles in a model. There's no fractional tessellation, and no triangles with different tessellation factors on each edge.

I've been talking about STALKER:CoP with AA applied @ 1920x1200. Traditionally, it's been a good title for ATi. I'll be comparing a single HD 5870 @ 1000|1275 vs a 470 @ its max clock in S:CoP below when it arrives. I plan on running full detail 1920x1200 with MSAA and MSAA for A-tested objects, then running the test without MSAA for A-tested objects but with general MSAA active.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...149837&page=16

Results likely this evening.