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Old 07-13-10, 12:13 AM   #13
darkrider01
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vardant View Post
Fully fledged dual GF104 card even with lower frequencies would wipe the floor with HD 5970, easily. Too bad we didn't have this instead of GF100, when it really mattered.

Just imagine, what they really had in store, if this was supposed to be only a mainstream chip. GF100 with 512cores on a good process would be amazing.
Did you read a different review than the one posted? Since I game at 1920x1200, I skimmed through the results at that resolution, and the 5970 has better than 20fps (at the minimum) in 15 of 20 game reviews over the 460's in SLi. It is an impressive setup, I admit, at an amazing price point. $400-425 for a setup that comes that close to the performance of a $700 5970 is just awesome, but since 2-in-1 cards rarely outperform their dual card couterparts, I think your statement is a bit of a stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonPC View Post
SLI almost always scales better than crossfire, it's just how it is. One of the SLI reviews compares it to an HD 5970, which performs about the same as 5850s in crossfire and the 460 almost always outperforms it or is neck and neck with it.
That doesn't quite jive with the results in the aforementioned review. The 5970 was outperforming the 460's in SLi in 15 out of 20 games in the review (@1920x1200).

Don't get me wrong here, the 460's in SLi are definitely an amazing deal (more performance for less money than a GTX480). But your statement makes it sounds like this:

460 = faster than 5850
5970 = 5850x2......
so 460 x 2 = faster than 5970

A 5970 is underclocked 5870's in crossfire, not 5850's.

Flame on.
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Old 07-13-10, 12:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

Darkrider is exactly right. The 5970 is still considerably faster than GTX 460 SLI. However, it is also WAY more expensive. That's where the GTX 460 wins: price.
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Old 07-13-10, 12:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

Damn, I think I found an upgrade for my dad. Been reading about them more on the net, very impressive product!
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Old 07-13-10, 01:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

I guess I should have rephrased what I said. There's really three cases for the 460 SLI. Cases in games that are slanted toward nvidia, 460 SLI often beats out the 5970 (dirt 2, hawx, metro 2033, world in conflict, far cry 2). Then there's some cases where they are fairly even. And then the third case is the games that are more slanted toward ATI (bad company 2, stalker, etc). Also I found SLI reviews on other sites had slightly higher numbers for the 460 than techpowerup. A lot of techpowerup's benchmarks where the 5970 outperformed seemed almost irrelevant as they were older games and the framerates were ridiculously high (COD4, CoJ 2, COH, etc). These weren't really stressing the GPUs.

I am more inclined to say there are more games out there where performance really matters that favor nvidia and SLI scaling over ATI and crossfire scaling. And the cases where it does come short of a 5970 it's usually a stone throw from it. I think it's also fair to compare the 5970 to 5850s in crossfire. The lower clocks hinder its performance to the point where you couldn't say it matches up to 5870s in crossfire though yes you can overclock it. It certainly lies somewhere in between CF 5850s and 5870s. Also I never said 460 = 5850. It's very clear 5850 is considerably faster 90% of the time. I said SLI tends to scale better than crossfire though obviously this is dependant on the application.

Then finally the price and the heat can't even compare to the 5970. I mean SLI 460s end up being cheaper than a single 480. Also you have to take both cards overclocking ability into consideration. Yes you can overclock the 5970 to get it to perform more like 5870s in CF but it looks like you can push the 460's clocks a lot more and squeeze out some amazing performance increases. Though no doubt the extra heat of having an SLI system might limit it a little.
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Old 07-13-10, 09:50 AM   #17
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

Although with the small size of the PCB of the GTX 460, that means less space is needed per GPU on the PCB of a dual-GPU single card.

What would be funny is if NVIDIA matched the 5970 in PCB size, but managed to cram on 3 GF104s onto a single PCB for a single tri-GPU card. Or if they had 2 GF104s per PCB, but then bolted two of those PCBs together a la the 9800 GX2 or the original GTX 295 and then made a quad-GPU single video card. If Tri-SLI and Quad-SLI scale well, I'm sure that would be enough to defeat a 5970.
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Old 07-13-10, 10:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

GTX460 is looking like a great upgrade for the 8800 guys particularly if they're waiting for a dual gpu solution.

I may get the Palit overclocked card. $225.. why not.
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Old 07-13-10, 11:14 AM   #19
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

I am sure AMD has something planned for this card since their refreshes are coming out soon.
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Old 07-13-10, 11:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

GAHHHHH!

Yeah- I'm needing to replace my dual 8800GTXs. I want the same performance I'm getting now, with less heat and power draw. Was looking at the 5850 but now... dunno.

Still have a little bit of time till I have to make the purchase. Guess I'll see what AMD does. They could probably drop the price on their entire lineup and still not dip into profits I'd imagine. Or at least, one could hope.

But considering every card I've purchased since... oh... 2001 () has been nvidia I'm kinda' wanting to stick with them- I just cannot have a power hungry heater of a card anymore.
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Old 07-13-10, 11:48 AM   #21
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

Redeemed I have a gtx 480, and its no hotter than my 2x gtx 260s. I love this new card.
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Old 07-13-10, 12:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
That, my friends, is what we've been waiting for in the enthusiast market.
You mean mainstream gamers market?

As impressive as these cards are, they aren't enthusiast cards. Those have been out for a while from both camps.
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Old 07-13-10, 02:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

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You mean mainstream gamers market?

As impressive as these cards are, they aren't enthusiast cards. Those have been out for a while from both camps.
In single form, the GTX 460 is a mainstream/mid-range part.

In dual form, a la SLI, you've got an enthusiast solution. Why is it an enthusiast solution? Because it's more powerful than a GTX 480 in 95% of games on the market.

Did you even click on the article link I posted?
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Old 07-13-10, 04:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: GTX 460 SLI: The REAL deal

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
In single form, the GTX 460 is a mainstream/mid-range part.

In dual form, a la SLI, you've got an enthusiast solution. Why is it an enthusiast solution? Because it's more powerful than a GTX 480 in 95% of games on the market.

Did you even click on the article link I posted?
I actually think it's a whole lot less attractive for an enthusiast in SLI. Yes, for about the same price (slightly less) you can get about 10% more performance than the 480. However, here are a couple of problems with going this route:

First, is a 10% performance increase worth the hassle of a dual-gpu system? I don't think so. I love my 480 SLI system, but I'd jump at a single card solution that was only 10% slower than what I currently have in a heartbeat. SLI is much better now than when I had my 260's but there are still plenty of issues. Even Hardocp said that in some games were the 460 SLI system benched higher, the 480 had "more fluid gameplay" which is one of the huge issues with SLI when a game taxes the graphics cards. That will only become more pronounced the more demanding that games get.

Second, you have zero upgrade path, so even if you save a few bucks now, down the line you end up spending just as much in the long run. You can't add a third card for an additional $200, you're going to have to blow quite a bit more when it's all said and done.


Don't get me wrong, I think they are excellent cards. And they will sell much better than the higher end parts, like mainstream products tend to do. I just don't think "enthusiasts" have been sitting around waiting for these particular cards, be it single or SLI.
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