GTS450s at newegg, go get'em!

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by JasonPC

Is a 450 even powerful enough to use for 3D and Physx (while being the main renderer)........ These features you list are mainly enthusiast grade options that are likely going to be run with more powerful cards.

I know the 450 was more a replacement for the 250 and not exactly after the 5770's spot, but considering how long the 5770 has been out, it would have been nice to see slightly better performance. It's still a really nice card and one that could definitely be suggested over the 5770 due to superior multi-GPU support. It might come out looking a lot better in an SLI review (any out there?).

I can't comment on performance yet.

However, I would speculate that based on those Tweak benchies that 3d Vision with older games at 16X10 would be possible. You've got to remember that that value of 3d Vision isn't all playing new games, it's great for replaying old favorites and seeing them in a whole new light. Some of my favorite 3d Vision games are the older Unreal games like Unreal 2 or UT2004.

As far as PhysX goes, I honestly don't know. I don't see these cards primary role as PhysX powerhouses, but what about as a future dedicated PhysX card if your fortunes improve? Or how about two of these as a primary and then an old 8800 as a a dedicated PhysX in your third PCIE slot?

The above are options an ATi gamer will never see.

[Ninja Prime]

Originally Posted by Rollo

Ah but NP, it's still a WAY better buy than the 5770 even if the performance is only the same and the price is the same.

Are all the websites cheering ATi's scaling and multi GPU compatibility? No, they're lauding NVIDIA's multi GPU.

Can you accelerate Adobe CS with ATi? Nope.

Run a multitude of GPGPU apps? No.

Play your MafiaII (and other games) in optomized 3d? No.

Use AA in games like Batman AA? Nope.

Use cool PhysX effects in many games to increase immersion? No again.

ATi cards should cost a lot less because they give you so much less.

Thats a rather sad list considering the card we are talking about, but I'll bite:

#1: All the sites you selectively went through and picked out are using the wrong drivers/app profile, indeed, HardOCP has a retraction of its review as I recall. With the right driver/app profile crossfire scaling is actually slightly better. You can read about it at B3D. This point is moot really because for the $260 you spend on SLI 450s you could have bought a nice overclocking 460 or better yet a 5850 for $254, on newegg.

#2: No one who paid $1900 for Adobe CS buys a $129 non-professionial video card to develop with.

#3: Being that ATI Stream and CTM existed long before CUDA and had apps before NV could run anything GPGPU, I'd guess they have similar amounts of apps, indeed, some people have apps running fine on ATI that they can't get to work very well on NV chips. I'm sure the opposite is true in some cases, but the point is both work fine and have a ton of apps, which probably 95% of the market doesn't care about anyway.

#4: You can't run MafiaII in 3D on a GTS450 either, unless you like slideshows.

#5: Meh. NV spent time and money to get AA working in one game, while excluding the competition, Intel tactics, while they make cartoons about how mean Intel is with thier tactics. /shrug

#6: See number 4, you can't run physx and get good framerates with a GTS450 in anything.

ATI costs less because they have a better, more efficent design. They nearly match NV current high end with almost half the power and half the die area. Hence they can make them cheaper.

[john19055]

It looks like it will have two versions of the GTS 450,one with 768mb and clocked at 790/1595/3760 and has 192 shaders and has a 128 bit bus and the other one mat be a GTX 450 clocked at 875/1750/2000 with 1gig of memory and possible with 192shaders or more(but this is just rumors) but both will have a 128bit buss. It should be faster then the HD5770.I would like to see some good reviews.

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by Ninja Prime

Thats a rather sad list considering the card we are talking about, but I'll bite:

#1: All the sites you selectively went through and picked out are using the wrong drivers/app profile, indeed, HardOCP has a retraction of its review as I recall. With the right driver/app profile crossfire scaling is actually slightly better. You can read about it at B3D. This point is moot really because for the $260 you spend on SLI 450s you could have bought a nice overclocking 460 or better yet a 5850 for $254, on newegg.

#2: No one who paid $1900 for Adobe CS buys a $129 non-professionial video card to develop with.

#3: Being that ATI Stream and CTM existed long before CUDA and had apps before NV could run anything GPGPU, I'd guess they have similar amounts of apps, indeed, some people have apps running fine on ATI that they can't get to work very well on NV chips. I'm sure the opposite is true in some cases, but the point is both work fine and have a ton of apps, which probably 95% of the market doesn't care about anyway.

#4: You can't run MafiaII in 3D on a GTS450 either, unless you like slideshows.

#5: Meh. NV spent time and money to get AA working in one game, while excluding the competition, Intel tactics, while they make cartoons about how mean Intel is with thier tactics. /shrug

#6: See number 4, you can't run physx and get good framerates with a GTS450 in anything.

ATI costs less because they have a better, more efficent design. They nearly match NV current high end with almost half the power and half the die area. Hence they can make them cheaper.

#1 B3D? You mean the site the guy that was rewarded with a job at ATi used to own? Where all his old ATi lovin' buddies still hang? No thanks- have any sites with no connection to ATi?
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=18

Great value at $260 - easily beats Radeon 5850

Outperforms Radeon 5870 in many games

Errrr.....I guess my "hunch" was right and NVIDIA just p3wnd ATi again.

#2 You speak for everyone now?

#3 Heh- Stream is a joke. I've seen many posts by developers who say it's barely usable. ATi's GPGPU program is years behind NVIDIA's.

#4 The question is "Can you run Mafia@ in 3d Vision on two 450s?" and I bet you can. Probably w/o AA, but 16X10 should be doable.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=14

Combining two GeForce GTS 450's into SLI allowed this game to play at 5760 x 1080 resolution across three monitors using upper-level settings to deliver a thoroughly impressive experience.

#5 No matter what you think of it, NVIDIA goes the extra mile to bring their customers better gaming experiences.

#6 Like I said, I bet you can run PhysX with 450 SLi, and for sure with an additional dedicated card.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=13

Surprisingly, there is very little impact on FPS performance with APEX PhysX enabled on GeForce video cards, and very little penalty for changing from medium (normal) to high settings.

Like most ATi fans, you seem to care a lot about how much ATi's second place GPU designs cost ATi. Good for you, ATi needs money!

EDIT: Benchmark Reviews was kind enough to post their review of the 450 and 450 SLi, so I've added the answers to some of your questions NP. I'm still under NDA till tomorrow, but I'll post a few benches then.

[Redeemed]

Rollo- as a budget gamer none of the features you mentioned are appealing to me.

3D means nothing.

CUDA and GPGPU means nothing.

SLi and CrossFire alike mean nothing.

All I want as much performance I can get, per watt, with very little power consumption and equally little heat output. Not a single card from nV's lineup offer this... save for the GTX460. But it's price is a real deterrent, which is why I went with the 5770.

I'm not at my trailer now, so I cannot bench the card. I'm visiting my folks. But when I get back I'll be glad to run the card through paces and compare it to this GTS450. Stock 5770 vs stock GTS450. Fair enough I'd say.

BTW, after rebate, my 5770 only cost me $129.99. W/ free shipping.

[Vardant]

Originally Posted by Ninja Prime

I'm sorry to bust your bubble guys, but thats pure marketing BS. They are taking a fanless(and thus lower performance), more expensive 5770, and comparing it to a top end overclocked GTS450. How anyone could feel honestly posting that is beyond me.

Fanless means lower performance since when exactly? It has the same clock as the default HD 5770....good stuff.

And before you start your conspiracy theories. They are using the card, because they recently reviewed it and it was the card they had available for the test.

[Rollo]

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Rollo- as a budget gamer none of the features you mentioned are appealing to me.

3D means nothing.

CUDA and GPGPU means nothing.

SLi and CrossFire alike mean nothing.

All I want as much performance I can get, per watt, with very little power consumption and equally little heat output. Not a single card from nV's lineup offer this... save for the GTX460. But it's price is a real deterrent, which is why I went with the 5770.

I'm not at my trailer now, so I cannot bench the card. I'm visiting my folks. But when I get back I'll be glad to run the card through paces and compare it to this GTS450. Stock 5770 vs stock GTS450. Fair enough I'd say.

BTW, after rebate, my 5770 only cost me $129.99. W/ free shipping.

Remember we're talking about launch day pricing Redeemed, the 5770 didn't cost $130 at launch.

Actually, it looks like the 5770 only costs $130 now because the 450 does.

These cards are a better buy than the 5770s because they give you the OPTION to use those features at a lower price point than ever before.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Rollo

Remember we're talking about launch day pricing Redeemed, the 5770 didn't cost $130 at launch.

Actually, it looks like the 5770 only costs $130 now because the 450 does.

These cards are a better buy than the 5770s because they give you the OPTION to use those features at a lower price point than ever before.

You still have overcome the obstacles of power consumption and heat output, performance per watt, and performance per dollar.

Those are things I care most about.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by slaWter

And that's exactly why I still don't understand why you didn't buy a 460 in the first place.
It excels in pretty much all those points and puts the competition, especially in lower price ranges, to shame.

Can it be had for $130?

Untill I can pickup more hours my monthly take-home is $500. I don't have the luxury of spending "just $50 more"...

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by slaWter

I see. But maybe waiting one more month would have been another solution. Or not getting that memory upgrade

A 460 is a much better investment IMO, especially more future proof.

Well, you're probably right about the memory- considering I'm not using it. Could've tacked that $40 onto what I spent on the video card.

Anyhow, the GTX460 goes for around $200. $40 more dollars would have still had me at least $30 short. I think some 768MB models could be had for about that price.

Anyhow, I'm pleased with the 5770 thus far. I'll, hopefully, better test it out once I'm back from visiting my folks.

[Blacklash]

Redeemed there's nothing wrong with your 5770. [H]ard compared one to the new GTS 450.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...eo_card_review

I know you can't afford it, and if I were spending my own cash on a bang for the buck card today, it would be the GTX 460. I'd grab one and shoot for 850 on the core with Afterburner. The MSI Cyclone card can likely OC to that level and stay around 61C load. At least techPowerUp! was able to do that with one.

For folks that can spend 225usd on a GPU, go with that and manually OC it. You won't be sorry.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-510-_-Product

If they bother with the rebate, it's 205usd.

BTW if you want extra push from your 5770 try OCing with the same tool, MSI's Afterburner.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Blacklash

Redeemed there's nothing wrong with your 5770. [H]ard compared one to the new GTS 450.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...eo_card_review

I know you can't afford it, and if I were spending my own cash on a bang for the buck card today, it would be the GTX 460. I'd grab one and shoot for 850 on the core with Afterburner. The MSI Cyclone card can likely OC to that level and stay around 61C load. At least techPowerUp! was able to do that with one.

For folks that can spend 225usd on a GPU, go with that and manually OC it. You won't be sorry.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-510-_-Product

If they bother with the rebate, it's 205usd.

BTW if you want extra push from your 5770 try OCing with the same tool, MSI's Afterburner.

Thanks Blacklash!

Not sure I'll need to OC. But if I feel I do, my card's a HIS- will afterburner still work with it?