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Old 09-23-10, 11:28 PM   #25
Ninja Prime
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Originally Posted by LT.Schaffer View Post
Take a look at the water cannon in Cryostasis and tell me the physX effects on doesn't make the stream look 100% better
Ill try to get a video of the effect on and off to show it.

Here You Go

I used Fraps to take these so they are not tweaked just straight out of game

PhysX OFF


PhysX ON
Whats supposed to be impressive here? I don't see any physics. I see a graphics effect, that doesn't effect the environment any different than the other version. This on a game that was created to show off PhysX... all aboard the fail boat!
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Old 09-23-10, 11:29 PM   #26
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
It's just annoying when people like Kanter make assertions based on the theoretical maximums of SSE.

I'm surprised he didn't add more ATi propaganda like, "It is clear the HD5870 could perform PhysX functions more than three times faster than a GTX480 because it has over three times the Stream Processors for extra parallel processing goodness! It's simple math!".

(while ignoring the inhgerent compiler inefficiency of the VLIW arch and differences in processing capacity of 4/5 of ATi's SPs)
Actually rollo, as I recall, before it got shut down by NV, that Physx translator for ATI cards was running faster on ATI than on NVs cards...
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Old 09-24-10, 01:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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LOL- what's a "crucial" way?
I already said it in this very thread - physics that effects gameplay. Like having a building collapse creating a pile of rubble with parts of the structure still standing. Not just some extra particles that do nothing but look pretty.

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They've been pushing PhysX for a couple years, and there are about 20 games out. Personally I'd be pretty happy if 20 more games came out in the next two years as well. Even ten.

While I wish every game gave me the option of using PhysX effects, I'd certainly rather have it in some than none like ATi users have. Even if OpenCL open standard physics do come out, my guess is ATi won't provide any dev support like NVIDIA does and there will still be PhysX.
ATi won't need to offer anywhere near the support NV are offering for Physx. NV offer the support to prop up their closed standard, with an open standard, everyone adds to its success - there's no need for anyone to play big brother and tell everyone how to use it.
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Old 09-24-10, 06:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Whats supposed to be impressive here? I don't see any physics. I see a graphics effect, that doesn't effect the environment any different than the other version. This on a game that was created to show off PhysX... all aboard the fail boat!
The only "fail boat" is your post NP.

1. You can't see the water with the PhysX off. When you can't see the water from a water gun, this is usually considered "bad". It's equivalent to not seeing the laser from a laser gun, a pretty big deal.

2. The physics are how the water reacts to gravity and solid bodies it encounters to provide a more realistic gaming environment NP.

While ATi owners might think it's acceptable to not see the water from a water gun, or have it just disappear on contact, those of us using NVIDIA cards with PhysX like having more immersive, realistic environments.
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Old 09-24-10, 06:11 AM   #29
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Actually rollo, as I recall, before it got shut down by NV, that Physx translator for ATI cards was running faster on ATI than on NVs cards...
Sort of a moot point though isn't it?
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Old 09-24-10, 06:38 AM   #30
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I already said it in this very thread - physics that effects gameplay. Like having a building collapse creating a pile of rubble with parts of the structure still standing. Not just some extra particles that do nothing but look pretty.



ATi won't need to offer anywhere near the support NV are offering for Physx. NV offer the support to prop up their closed standard, with an open standard, everyone adds to its success - there's no need for anyone to play big brother and tell everyone how to use it.
PhysX does affect gameplay. (e.g. sharp ice damages player in Cryostasis game shown in this thread)

Beyond that, making games "look pretty" is a big part of why we spend more money to be computer gamers. If we want static environments, scripted physics, and less realistic graphics why not just buy a $300 console and call it a day?

Don't be so sure devs will adopt a standard just because it exists. It's extra work and expense for them, and requires extra knowledge.
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Old 09-24-10, 08:03 AM   #31
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

I'll be first to admit, that I have liked the PhysiX effects in the games that I have seen, Batman it a good one for eg. The problem is that this isnt Nvidia tech, like Nvidias 3D vision, Nvidia just brought out the companies that created these techs, and intergrated into their own company. This forces the user to buy their products to use these techs, where before it was open to both ATi and Nvidia uses (bar the 3d tech, this was always nvidia cards only). When I had my GF8800 and tried playing the UT3 PhysiX maps, I couldnt, not at 10-20fps, remember that the PhysiX chip is seperate from the graphics chip! I would really love to know WTH my 4 cpus are doing these days, I mean, in games that use OpenAL, I have my soundcard, GFX card for all that is graphics, 1 cpu should be enough for all A.I, so why cant good realtime physics be run on todays cpus??
I am no fan of either company, this is my first ATi card since 1998, and am very very happy with its price/performance and quality, which is most important to me with anything, even women jk PhysiX is a tech which could add alot to games, but all the best PhyiX Ive seen have been only in demos!!
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Old 09-24-10, 10:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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PhysX does affect gameplay. (e.g. sharp ice damages player in Cryostasis game shown in this thread)
The ice could still be scripted. The ice damaging a player has nothing to do with physics.

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Beyond that, making games "look pretty" is a big part of why we spend more money to be computer gamers. If we want static environments, scripted physics, and less realistic graphics why not just buy a $300 console and call it a day?
Sure, PC gaming definitely has extras that set it apart from consoles, and we are willing to pay for them. But given the current hardware, the tools already exist to implement physics. But if we continue to use proprietary software, which for some reason you so (ignorantly) think is a great idea, then it will continue to stay limited to a niche market.

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Don't be so sure devs will adopt a standard just because it exists. It's extra work and expense for them, and requires extra knowledge.
Yea, because they've never adopted other standards before, and there's definitely nothing you need to learn to implement PhysX.

This is a ridiculous argument.
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Old 09-24-10, 11:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

Batman Arkham Asylum look great on the scarecrow level with Physx on, however with a single GPU solution the performance drop just isnt worth it...from an average of 61fps to a dip of 9fps on the scarecrow level with physx on.

Is having to buy a second GPU really worth it to see a couple of extra effects run at higher fps ? I dont think so...
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Old 09-24-10, 11:56 PM   #34
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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The ice could still be scripted. The ice damaging a player has nothing to do with physics.
Exactly. Show me a building collapsing on enemies and killing them. Show me being able to collapse a snipers tower with a rocket launcher. The only games that offer anything close to this use their own physics systems (crysis comes to mind) because these things that effect gameplay need to be able to be done by everyone who plays the game, not just people who own a certain brand of hardware.

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Sure, PC gaming definitely has extras that set it apart from consoles, and we are willing to pay for them. But given the current hardware, the tools already exist to implement physics. But if we continue to use proprietary software, which for some reason you so (ignorantly) think is a great idea, then it will continue to stay limited to a niche market.
That's exactly it, a niche market. You can't create physics that are game changing when your market for those who can use the effects is only a niche.

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Batman Arkham Asylum look great on the scarecrow level with Physx on, however with a single GPU solution the performance drop just isnt worth it...from an average of 61fps to a dip of 9fps on the scarecrow level with physx on.

Is having to buy a second GPU really worth it to see a couple of extra effects run at higher fps ? I dont think so...
That's the thing, it's all just visual stuff and STILL it's far too demanding. You can't say buying a Nvidia card is better than buying an ATI card because of physx because in reality you need a dedicated nvidia card for physics - and now with hacks you can have your ATI card and still add a NV one for physics. I'd be doing that myself IF the physx effects were something like realistic destructable environments inf Action/FPS and more realistic car handling/crashes/damage in racing games for instance.

This is what I got excited about with physics back in 2003 with the HL2 teaser vids. Unfortunately, gameplay related physics has gone nowhere since then.
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Old 09-25-10, 08:35 AM   #35
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Batman Arkham Asylum look great on the scarecrow level with Physx on, however with a single GPU solution the performance drop just isnt worth it...from an average of 61fps to a dip of 9fps on the scarecrow level with physx on.

Is having to buy a second GPU really worth it to see a couple of extra effects run at higher fps ? I dont think so...
Not worth it to you maybe, but how about not making the decision for the rest of us? The $75 -$125 an additional GPU for PhysX might cost is spit in the ocean of my hobby expenses every year.

A lot of people can just use an old NVIDIA card they still have. For the ones who can't, I'd note a 3 year old 8800GT is still a more than adequate PhysX card. You can buy a Zotac 9800GT with lifetime warranty for $69.99 AMIR shipped at newegg- the "high cost" argument doesn't fly.

If it lasts you two years that's $35 bucks a year. That's less than the cost of a game.
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Old 09-25-10, 10:36 AM   #36
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Default Re: Interesting PhysX Blog

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Not worth it to you maybe, but how about not making the decision for the rest of us? The $75 -$125 an additional GPU for PhysX might cost is spit in the ocean of my hobby expenses every year.

A lot of people can just use an old NVIDIA card they still have. For the ones who can't, I'd note a 3 year old 8800GT is still a more than adequate PhysX card. You can buy a Zotac 9800GT with lifetime warranty for $69.99 AMIR shipped at newegg- the "high cost" argument doesn't fly.

If it lasts you two years that's $35 bucks a year. That's less than the cost of a game.
I see your point but my point is that with a 450 GPU it should be sufficient enough on its own to run any extra effects Nvidia comes up with. Just like 3D gaming i believe Physx to be nothing more than a gimmick so users have to buy more hardware...

If users already have a capable Physx card hanging around then of course this doesn't apply to them....But for the few games that do support Physx i cannot justify spending more money to see an effect that does nothing for the gameplay and that can look just as good with effects that can be used without Physx. Of course this is my oppinion and i am not speaking on behalf of anyone.

If i had cared for Physx i would of purchased an Ageia card years ago....
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