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Old 11-07-10, 05:53 AM   #13
Fackamato
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by Lemmiwinks View Post
That would mean the end of proper 3D acceleration for thousands of future Ubuntu users on Nvidia hardware. Well I guess Nvidia will change its mind when Canonical really put their plans into action.
No. If _everybody_ in the Linux community switches to Wayland, say in 5-10 years, then NVIDIA might care... until then, they're fine supporting the other major distributions I suppose.
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Old 11-07-10, 06:25 AM   #14
jma
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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We have no plans to support Wayland.
Now wait a second ... AFAICS, all Wayland expects from the driver is a fullscreen rootwindow that can draw OpenGL. Me thinks this is well supported already That the XEvents are then ignored by all Wayland applications (and processed by the compositor only) should not be an issue on driver level.
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Old 11-07-10, 07:40 AM   #15
brucecadieux
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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That would mean the end of proper 3D acceleration for thousands of future Ubuntu users on Nvidia hardware.
So?

When has doing things differently and in a strange way to the point of breaking stuff ever stopped Ubuntu from doing anything?
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Old 11-07-10, 09:10 PM   #16
JaXXoN
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by jma View Post
all Wayland expects from the driver is a fullscreen rootwindow that can draw OpenGL. Me thinks this is well supported already
I'm pretty sure it's possible to use an OpenGL/ES enabled X-Server as a back-end for
Wayland. The X-Server could be stripped down to it's minimal requirements for the only
client (wayland) on top of it. You wouldn't even need to bother with xevents, because
you can access input devices directly through their kernel interfaces.

However, running Wayland on top of an X-Server contradicts the architectural
picture of replacing the X-Server :-)

regards

Bernhard
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Old 11-08-10, 04:04 AM   #17
jma
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by JaXXoN View Post

However, running Wayland on top of an X-Server contradicts the architectural
picture of replacing the X-Server :-)
So they will run Wayland on top of dri, which is already bypassing the X-server:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...Infrastructure

The sky isn't falling just yet.
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Old 11-08-10, 07:29 AM   #18
artem
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

jma,

Yes, I always wonder why everything Mark Shuttleworth says causes such an ill stir in community.

He doesn't dictate the course/line of Linux development, there are other distributions other than Ubuntu, and most Linux innovations happen in Fedora, only then Ubuntu embraces them.
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Old 11-08-10, 11:32 AM   #19
ioannis
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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We have no plans to support Wayland.
You have no plans to implement KMS. Aside from Wayland, that also means you have no plans to have Xorg rootless either.
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Old 11-08-10, 12:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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You have no plans to implement KMS. Aside from Wayland, that also means you have no plans to have Xorg rootless either.
rootless X is actually possible:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...5&postcount=10
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Old 11-09-10, 12:08 PM   #21
muhkuh
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

Nvidia said that they have no plans to support wayneland. This doesn't mean they refuse to do it. It's just not planned yet which is not a surprise taking wayneland's current state of development into account.
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Old 11-09-10, 01:19 PM   #22
Sean_W
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

Well, if you read Linux Today, there is about 6 of the same thing about this, it's ridiculous. Canonical say what they and everyone else will be using so it's actually no small secret.

NVIDIA are right to have no plans to support it, since no one even uses it yet and Canonical would be foolish to use it in 6 months. As I've seen, Canonical will implement it over a number of years and not in the next release.
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Old 11-09-10, 02:23 PM   #23
zander
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

One thing worth noting is that beside the small footprint the Wayland display server may have at this time and the relatively early stages of development it is in, there are architectural limitations to its design that present problems for features that are taken for granted today.

Although it is quite old now, a good part of the discussion of using X-on-OpenGL vs. X.Org for composited desktops in Andy Ritger's presentation for the 2006 X developers' conference applies to Wayland, as well:

http://download.nvidia.com/developer...-framework.pdf
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Old 11-09-10, 03:59 PM   #24
mooninite
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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there are architectural limitations to its design that present problems for features that are taken for granted today.
I've already listened to plenty of X-junkies scream in horror about X being replaced. It's already loud enough.

I think you will be quite surprised with the "consumer-ready" version of Wayland, which will be in a couple of years.
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