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Old 11-09-10, 08:49 PM   #25
JaXXoN
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by jma View Post
So they will run Wayland on top of dri, which is already bypassing the X-server:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_...Infrastructure
.
Please note that the current nvidia driver doesn't use DRI. So without support from
nvidia, wayland could only run as X-client on top an accelerated X-Server.
I basically don't see a problem with such a stacked solution. I.e. XGL also solved a
lot of problems with the standard X-Server - what a pity it's not supported any more.

Bernhard
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Old 11-10-10, 01:53 AM   #26
ir123
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

I think at some point in the future, weyland will be forked into yutani. Then later yet will fuse into weyland fusion. Then it will be showed off for a while in youtube videos, then not used by that many people all the time in reality.
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Old 11-10-10, 02:03 AM   #27
jma
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by JaXXoN View Post
Please note that the current nvidia driver doesn't use DRI.
(For a GT220)

$ glxinfo | grep rendering
direct rendering: Yes
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Old 11-10-10, 02:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

"direct rendering" is not DRI.
NVIDIA uses its own extensions to achieve direct rendering, and does not use the X DRI/DRI2 extensions.
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Old 11-10-10, 02:50 AM   #29
jma
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

DRI or not, if the client and server is on the same machine then X/GLX gets bypassed and OpenGL rendering is direct - meaning that Wayland is a solution to a problem we simply do not have.
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Old 11-10-10, 07:52 AM   #30
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
"direct rendering" is not DRI.
NVIDIA uses its own extensions to achieve direct rendering, and does not use the X DRI/DRI2 extensions.
Does Wayland need specifically DRI or will any kind of direct rendering do?
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Old 11-10-10, 04:19 PM   #31
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

Maybe Wayland support for X.org will be earlier than NVIDIA support for Wayland...

At this page:
http://groups.google.com/group/wayla...unning-wayland

is the section:

Quote:
X.org on Wayland

Not buildable right now.
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Old 11-10-10, 08:55 PM   #32
hussam
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

I trust nvidia more than I trust canonical. Canonical only does this for publicity otherwise perhaps Canonical can write their own nvidia display drivers, no? And it's not like Canonical will even contribute to open source software other than their propaganda that every computer in the world runs Ubuntu.
I reported a bug in gnome bugzilla once from another distribution then some ubuntu dev replies and thanks me for reporting the bug and trying to make ubuntu better. No where in the report did it say I ran ubuntu.
This sort of thing has been discussed so many times and every time the sane conclusion is please let nvidia do their work instead of asking why don't you support x and y.
Same thing with Wayland, Canonical is trying to get their noses in something someone from another distribution is developing instead of engineering their own solutions and now nvidia needs to automatically support it??
I've been running Linux for over 15 years and I've learned we need to let things naturally happen instead of posting stuff like you'll need to support wayland because big vendors x and y want it.
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Old 11-11-10, 09:29 AM   #33
the Goat
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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I've been running Linux for over 15 years and I've learned we need to let things naturally
End users telling companies where they need to spend their resources in order to secure continued business from those end users is part of the natural process.
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Old 11-11-10, 12:20 PM   #34
Deanjo
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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End users telling companies where they need to spend their resources in order to secure continued business from those end users is part of the natural process.
So is whining by linux users for releasing source code that they wouldn't have a sniff what to do with even if it was released.
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Old 11-11-10, 12:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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So is whining by linux users for releasing source code that they wouldn't have a sniff what to do with even if it was released.
I read your post five times and I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. I'm guessing your joke isn't very funny.
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Old 11-12-10, 01:21 AM   #36
JaXXoN
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Default Re: nvidia and the wayland display server

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Originally Posted by Gusar View Post
Does Wayland need specifically DRI or will any kind of direct rendering do?
My understanding is that Wayland is based on the Linux kernel DRI.

nvidia uses it's own direct rendering interface. So why not just adding
support for that one in Wayland? Because of two reasons:

First, the nvidia interface to the kernel is not document, so one would
need to reverse engineer that.

Second, even if you know *how* to talk to the GPU through the nvidia
kernel interface, then you would still need to reverse engineer *what*
to tell the GPU. Means, the actual DMA stream is built up in user-space
and sent to the GPU through the kernel interface. In other words:
the kernel DRI is just a means to give the actual graphics library
(residing in user space) access to the GPU. BTW.: the nouveau project
shows this reverse engineering isn't quite a simple task.

Anyway, the more I read and think about Wayland, the more I'm convinced
it's not the right way of doing it, because network transparency is missing!
Not that a whole lot of people urgently need that any more, but it is still an
essential feature for certain special setups where DRI-only system have
proven to be very poor (ever tried to do something like XDMX on windows?)

Adding network transparency could be added to Wayland in two flavours:
OpenGL/ES streams or VNC/NX like. In the first case, you would essentially
add the GLX protocol to Wayland. So in this case I would tend do say:
let's stay with the X-Server, but make sure that the old-style 2D-API is
internally translated to OpenGL (similar to what XGL does). Developers of
new applications can certainly feel free to use OpenGL/ES directly.
This would make the transition from the old 2D-objects based world
to the 3D-stream based world much easier, IMHO.

regards

Bernhard
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