Go Back   nV News Forums > Graphics Card Forums > NVIDIA GeForce 400/500 Series

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-11, 01:07 PM   #109
Roadhog
Resident Alien
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,776
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post

Do you honestly believe that that few extra hundredths of a volt will cause the card to croak? You're mad if you believe that.
If you own a 590 it will.
Roadhog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 02:12 PM   #110
Rollo
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
What overvolting are you talking about exactly? Each time you post, you throw that word around. I don't see ANY overvolting. All I see is a switch that increases performance on a card by raising clock frequencies with a small voltage tweak that is WITHIN SPEC OF THE CARD. The reason it's not warrantied by 7 of the 8 manufacturers is because flipping that switch takes the card out of PCIe power spec. Allowing users to do such a thing would not only increase power draw to a level that's not acceptable for everyone to use (see 750-watt power supply...), but it also causes the card to become noticeably more noisy. That, by itself, would result in RMA's and loss of business. XFX is taking a risk, but it will more than likely pay off in the long run. Retain your customer base, and you will likely profit from it.

Guaranteed that AMD put that switch on to give users extra oomph, not to make the card unstable to the point that it will croak. If that was the case, AMD would not have done that. These are handpicked chips that are the best of the best in Cayman XT form.

Notice how Nvidia doesn't have a switch like that. AMD did this to make sure that their card is the fastest, regardless of what Nvidia chucks out. Mission accomplished. Notice how Nvidia's card is a lot smaller. I have a theory on that one; less power regulation circuitry, thus resulting in little puffs of smoke. AMD got this one right. Nvidia cut corners, and is paying for it now.

Honestly, do you have nothing better to do than to defend Nvidia? Think logically for once, please. No manufacturer in their right mind would put out a piece of hardware that could be clocked out of spec simply by flipping a switch. The thought of such a thing is absurd.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...rclock-switc/1



Do you honestly believe that that few extra hundredths of a volt will cause the card to croak? You're mad if you believe that.
So, you don't think that the people who ran 30% more power through their 590s after hacking the registry to disable the failsafes that protect the card ran it "outside of PCIE spec"?

How does that work? It's OK for all the ATi vendors to void your warranty for a tiny voltage increase, but if NVIDIA parts burn after a huge voltage increase they're "dangerous to own"?

Seems like a double standard to me.

I believe if the people who overvolted 590s by 30%+ overvolted 6990s by 30%+ some of them will burn up too.

The fact that Neoseeker's review card (6990) burned up after they had used the AUSUM switch would lead me in that direction.

What about the bet? You seemed anxious enough to call me a liar on the sales figures I quoted from NVIDIA, now you don't even have $50 to back your assertions? Must not even believe yourself I guess.
__________________
Rig1:
intel 990X + 2 X EVGA 3GB GTX580 + 3 X Acer GD235Hz
3D Vision Surround

Rig 2:
intel 2500K + NVIDIA GTX590 + Dell 3007 WFPHC

[SIZE="1"]NVIDIA Focus Group Member
[B]NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.[/B][/SIZE]
Rollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 02:16 PM   #111
Rollo
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
It's tRollo we're dealing with. Him being mad is a given.
So what is your explanation Redeemed? Why does only one manufacturer allow warranty on a 6990 when the AUSUM switch has been used?

Aren't ATi vendors confident in their product's ability to operate at the AUSUM settings?

Or is it more just a press stunt, a trick for reviewers to use and owners to wish they could?

Unless you're saying all the vendors other than XFX should be avoided because they have unreasonable warranties?
__________________
Rig1:
intel 990X + 2 X EVGA 3GB GTX580 + 3 X Acer GD235Hz
3D Vision Surround

Rig 2:
intel 2500K + NVIDIA GTX590 + Dell 3007 WFPHC

[SIZE="1"]NVIDIA Focus Group Member
[B]NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.[/B][/SIZE]
Rollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 02:21 PM   #112
Madpistol
It's a wittle baby!
 
Madpistol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 4,554
Send a message via AIM to Madpistol
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
So, you don't think that the people who ran 30% more power through their 590s after hacking the registry to disable the failsafes that protect the card ran it "outside of PCIE spec"?

How does that work? It's OK for all the ATi vendors to void your warranty for a tiny voltage increase, but if NVIDIA parts burn after a huge voltage increase they're "dangerous to own"?

Seems like a double standard to me.

I believe if the people who overvolted 590s by 30%+ overvolted 6990s by 30%+ some of them will burn up too.

The fact that Neoseeker's review card (6990) burned up after they had used the AUSUM switch would lead me in that direction.

What about the bet? You seemed anxious enough to call me a liar on the sales figures I quoted from NVIDIA, now you don't even have $50 to back your assertions? Must not even believe yourself I guess.
Hardware failures, especially in early cards, happen. a 30% jump in voltage is stupid. This is a few hundreths of a volt. Try 5% increase in voltage on the AMD cards. That will not kill them. Once again, taking the card out of PCIe spec is what we're talking about. THAT is what voids the warranty. XFX honors it though. Pure and Simple. Are you telling me that eVGA or ASUS should honor the warranty if you decide to overvolt your GTX 590 by modifying the BIOS?

Now you really have lost it. You're arguing points that are extremely unreasonable. A 30% voltage increase on any card will kill it. AMD doesn't allow you to do that. tweaking a bios to break the voltage barrier is stupid at best. You don't have to do that on the AMD card, and you can increase the performance. Yea, your warranty is going to be voided if you increase the voltage on ANY card by 30%. If you truly believe what you just said, you shouldn't be in the Nvidia focus group. You're suggesting that AMD's AUSUM switch is equatable to frying a card by overvolting it by 30%???

Also, I don't want your filthy money. I'm laughing in your face by how much that post of yours just failed. You must be getting desperate.
__________________
http://bfbc2.statsverse.com/sig/deta...d%20Pistol.png


MadPistol's Rig

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE (RB-C3) @ 4Ghz, 1.425 Vcore, 1.25V NB VID
Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (w/ Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm fan)
Gigabyte UD3H AM3 790GX motherboard
XFX Radeon HD 5870
PNY XLR8 2x2GB CL8 DDR3 1600
G.Skill Ripjaws 2x2GB CL8 DDR3 1600
Soundblaster X-Fi Fatality Titanium
OCZ Vertex II 120GB SSD (OS drive)
Western Digital 500GB Caviar (black)
Western Digital 640GB Blue
Samsung DVD burner
Logitech MX performance mouse
Logitech G15 keyboard
Corsair HX 750-watt Modular PSU
Antec Nine Hundred case
Windows 7 Home Premium x64
ASUS MK241 24" LCD
ACER X241W 24" LCD - RIP
Madpistol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 02:25 PM   #113
Redeemed
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 17,982
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
So what is your explanation Redeemed? Why does only one manufacturer allow warranty on a 6990 when the AUSUM switch has been used?

Aren't ATi vendors confident in their product's ability to operate at the AUSUM settings?

Or is it more just a press stunt, a trick for reviewers to use and owners to wish they could?

Unless you're saying all the vendors other than XFX should be avoided because they have unreasonable warranties?
I think that any time you oc, regardless what it is and regardless of whether or not you up the voltage, it is dangerous and has inherit risks involved. For a company to provide a warranty on a product ran beyond spec is indeed a dangerous and risky move. I'd venture on the ATi side XFX is the only company big enough to offer such a warranty, and on the nVidia side e-VGA is the only company large enough to offer such a warranty. I'd imagine ASUS could afford it as well but opt not to as their customer service is rather poor as is and likely don't want to be out the extra money such would cost.

I'd not own either, the 6990 nor the 590, as both consume way too much power, run way too hot for my needs.

However, if I were in the market for either I'd likely be looking to water cool the card as that is silent and more than able to keep the temps in check even when oc'd.
Redeemed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 03:42 PM   #114
Rollo
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
I think that any time you oc, regardless what it is and regardless of whether or not you up the voltage, it is dangerous and has inherit risks involved. For a company to provide a warranty on a product ran beyond spec is indeed a dangerous and risky move. I'd venture on the ATi side XFX is the only company big enough to offer such a warranty, and on the nVidia side e-VGA is the only company large enough to offer such a warranty. I'd imagine ASUS could afford it as well but opt not to as their customer service is rather poor as is and likely don't want to be out the extra money such would cost.

I'd not own either, the 6990 nor the 590, as both consume way too much power, run way too hot for my needs.

However, if I were in the market for either I'd likely be looking to water cool the card as that is silent and more than able to keep the temps in check even when oc'd.
I agree with you 100%.

What I'm doing with you and MadPistol here is asking you leading questions, either way you answer serves my purpose.

If you answer as you did, that it's risky to OC and especially risky to OC without non standard cooling, you make people like RoadHog and Madpistol look foolish for posting links to videos made by review sites that disabled protection mechanisms and ran a lot of extra voltage through 590s as some sort of evidence 590s are unsafe and prone to blow up. (every card is prone to blow up if you disable it's protection and run a lot of extra electricity through it)

If you would have taken RoadHog, MadPistol, etc's position and said "These are enthusiast parts! It is perfectly reasonable to expect people will disablle the protection, run a lot of juice through them, and all the ATi vendors except XFX are bad vendors for not warrantying enthusiast settings!" it works for me as well. Saying all ATi vendors but one are sub par and don't cater to enthusiasts is fine with me as well.

Point being, these videos of exploding cards were made by people who deserved to have their cards explode. They ran them way above spec for power and clocks, and did not use additional cooling to accomodate their experiments.

Personally, I think the "AUSUM" switch is the equivalent of a review sample as 90% of the people who buy these cards not only risk destroying them but also will have no warranty if they do so.

Even if I had an XFX model I wouldn't switch the "AUSUM" switch. The 6990s sound like a hairdryer already and OCing them will only make that worse. I'd also hae some problem doing something I know risks the card and sending it in for replacement if it died.
__________________
Rig1:
intel 990X + 2 X EVGA 3GB GTX580 + 3 X Acer GD235Hz
3D Vision Surround

Rig 2:
intel 2500K + NVIDIA GTX590 + Dell 3007 WFPHC

[SIZE="1"]NVIDIA Focus Group Member
[B]NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.[/B][/SIZE]
Rollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 04:10 PM   #115
Rollo
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
Hardware failures, especially in early cards, happen.
Really? Than why are you and Roadhog making such a big deal out of a few tortured 590s dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
a 30% jump in voltage is stupid
I agree, but that's exactly what guys like Wizard at TechPowerup did to blow up their cards.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...TX_590/26.html

Quote:
As a first step, I increased the voltage from 0.938 V default to 1.000 V, maximum stable clock was 815 MHz - faster than GTX 580! Moving on, I tried 1.2 V to see how much could be gained here, at default clocks and with NVIDIA's power limiter enabled. I went to heat up the card and then *boom*,
That's a 28% over volt that destroyed the card, and like you say, it's "stupid".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
. This is a few hundreths of a volt. Try 5% increase in voltage on the AMD cards. That will not kill them. Once again, taking the card out of PCIe spec is what we're talking about. THAT is what voids the warranty.
And what you are saying about 590s exploding happened with almost 3/10 of a volt. There are no verified posts of 590s dying with release drivers and non obscene over volts I know from reputable sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
XFX honors it though. Pure and Simple. Are you telling me that eVGA or ASUS should honor the warranty if you decide to overvolt your GTX 590 by modifying the BIOS?
My cards are built for NVIDIA, not brand name. I have no warranty. No, I'm actually saying XFX is foolish to do so if it's dangerous enough to the card every other vendor will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
Now you really have lost it. You're arguing points that are extremely unreasonable. A 30% voltage increase on any card will kill it. AMD doesn't allow you to do that. tweaking a bios to break the voltage barrier is stupid at best. You don't have to do that on the AMD card, and you can increase the performance. Yea, your warranty is going to be voided if you increase the voltage on ANY card by 30%. If you truly believe what you just said, you shouldn't be in the Nvidia focus group. You're suggesting that AMD's AUSUM switch is equatable to frying a card by overvolting it by 30%???
No, I just wanted you to say the above so the next time you or Road Hog post some comment about 590s exploding I can link yuou back to you saying that what made them explode is "stupid at best". (because that's exactly what I think)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
Also, I don't want your filthy money. I'm laughing in your face by how much that post of yours just failed. You must be getting desperate.
I think you meant to say "As I can't say for sure you didn't call someone at NVIDIA and talk to them about 590 sales, and then post their comments here, I'm not going to risk $50 you're telling the truth and buy you a bottle of Patron so you can make more decent margaritas."
__________________
Rig1:
intel 990X + 2 X EVGA 3GB GTX580 + 3 X Acer GD235Hz
3D Vision Surround

Rig 2:
intel 2500K + NVIDIA GTX590 + Dell 3007 WFPHC

[SIZE="1"]NVIDIA Focus Group Member
[B]NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.[/B][/SIZE]
Rollo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 06:10 PM   #116
Rollo
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivegotthepower View Post
. AMD does 3D now as well, so that's about all they have left. Physx and explosive gtx 590s.
AMD does 3d? You mean that laughable science project where you buy some drivers from some companies far outside the gaming industry for the privilege of gaming only on tvs at 24fps at 1080P?

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ts,2776-3.html

Quote:
Because AMD utilizes the HDMI 1.4a specification, which boasts a maximum TMDS throughput of 10.2 Gb/s, you can either game in stereo at 720p maxing out at 60 frames per second per eye, or you can game at 1080p with up to 24 frames per second per eye


Of course, it is a lot farther than ATi got with the GPU accelerated physics they've been trying to figure out for 5 years:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1414

Quote:
ATI Says It Can Do Physics Better Than AGEIA and NVIDIA


It is true ATi can lay claim to the faster at some games and settings, it's too bad they had to clock their part so high to do it a lot of people don't want to be in the same room with it.

Better luck next time ATi.
__________________
Rig1:
intel 990X + 2 X EVGA 3GB GTX580 + 3 X Acer GD235Hz
3D Vision Surround

Rig 2:
intel 2500K + NVIDIA GTX590 + Dell 3007 WFPHC

[SIZE="1"]NVIDIA Focus Group Member
[B]NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.[/B][/SIZE]
Rollo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 03-31-11, 06:19 PM   #117
jkmetal
Registered User
 
jkmetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 775
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

This thread is amazing. Execs at ati and nvidia are planing on buying their boards a round of drinks after reading this thread. Consumers letting brand loyalty become part of personal identification textbook success. Win marketing baby.
__________________
Inter Q9950@stock. Scythe CPU cooler.4gigs Corsair ddr2 1066. Segate 1tb drive. Ati Theater Pro 650. Evga GTX460 768@845mhz. Win 7 64 Professional.
Dell 2007wfp S-IPS. Dell P1130. Razer Deathadder. Ducky 87 key mechanical keyboard. Xbox 360 controller for windows.
jkmetal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 06:26 PM   #118
Bah!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 868
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivegotthepower View Post
Why do you waste your time arguing with Rollo ? He's a shill for nv. He'll ramble on endlessly until you give him the last word.

What else do you expect him to do ? Nvidia released a pile of garbage with the gtx 590. They haven't had the fastest graphics card on the market since the day the 5870 released. And now they have a faulty card that catches fire if you're not lucky or want to overclock at all. They released a pointless crappy card that is slower than a 6990 and is unreliable.

Now they're left to scream about gpu physx and the only 15 games that support it, 80% of which are crap. AMD does 3D now as well, so that's about all they have left. Physx and explosive gtx 590s.

Nv is in trouble. lol.
First off, creating an account to lambast Nvida pretty much puts you in the same boat as Rollo. Of course you're probably just a beard of someone who is afraid to use their real username. Either way, a first post troll is awesome!

Second, if you think that AMD's 3D is anywhere close to Nvidia's you're a moron.
Bah! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 07:50 PM   #119
bob saget
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver, originally Russia
Posts: 23,134
Send a message via MSN to bob saget Send a message via Yahoo to bob saget
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...=1#post2413013
bob saget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-11, 07:52 PM   #120
bob saget
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver, originally Russia
Posts: 23,134
Send a message via MSN to bob saget Send a message via Yahoo to bob saget
Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

i'd be interested to see how hot the 6990 gets in that case.
bob saget is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.