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Old 04-17-11, 08:31 AM   #181
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Originally Posted by Sean_W View Post
Except that PhysX is pretty unplayable without a second card,
This is a GTX590 thread, GTX590s have two GPUs. So it's now preferable to have no GPU accelerated physics effects if you need two GPUs to run them?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2368614,00.asp
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We have to admit it: The Mafia II benchmark with PhysX enabled does look a lot better than the plain version—as does the full game.
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Forced AO is pretty useless and gives such a performance loss is no use,
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...-review-test/6
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A new welcomed feature, yet depending on the application and the resolution, you may see a performance drop between 20-40%, which is likely too hefty for the most of us.
20-40% might have been high back in GTX275 days, but a lot of cards now run a lot of games at 70-100+fps at 1080P, so having the option to force image enhancing AO on games is a nice option.

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hardly any CUDA games(again CUDA takes a huge performance drop in Just Cause 2 for example).
Even if it's one game, better to have it than not. I have JC2, and the water looks better on NVIDIA.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...mage_quality/4
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In Just Cause 2, GPU Water Simulation and Bokeh filtering make a compelling argument for NVIDIA video cards.
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NVIDIA have a history of AF optimizations as well, reducing image quality or making big gains in benchmark apps.
I see, so because NVIDIA had an issue with AF optimizations years ago it's OK that ATi does now and most of the benchmarks buyers see in reviews are inflated by lower image quality?

I notice you didn't mention ATi's 3d at all, we must be in agreement how far they are at this.

In any case, the point is ATi doesn't offer all the stuff above. Support varies, as does performance hit, but NVIDIA cards give gamers options to play games with better image quality and higher immersion that ATi owners don't get.

When you add that the 6990 sounds like a hair dryer and only gives better performance in some games (and usually not noticeably better performance) it's pretty difficult to make a case for the 6990.

About the only thing it really has an advantage in is OCing, and do we really "want" to make the loudest graphics card in history louder?
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Old 04-17-11, 09:05 AM   #182
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Ironically, you do actually need a very powerful GPU like the GTX590 for all of those features on but you can bet the performance will drop like a stone in deep water.

AO doesn't ways look right either, since it applies it to most things on the screen that don't have AO. It's like the over use of SSAO in Crysis 2 and Burnout Paradise, which doesn't look good.
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Old 04-17-11, 09:53 AM   #183
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Ironically, you do actually need a very powerful GPU like the GTX590 for all of those features on but you can bet the performance will drop like a stone in deep water.

AO doesn't ways look right either, since it applies it to most things on the screen that don't have AO. It's like the over use of SSAO in Crysis 2 and Burnout Paradise, which doesn't look good.
Features that enhance image quality also lower framerates? Ummm...yes, that's pretty much a rule.

Sometimes AO doesn't look right? OK, sounds good. I'd reply, "You still have the option to use it where it does look right and you can't on ATi cards on games that don't natively support AO.". Having it where it works >>>>>>>>not having it at all.

What's interesting about all of this is if ATi had these features and NVIDIA did not, a lot of people would be saying they are the ONLY things that matter. I remember an ATi fan telling me DX11 was the only thing that mattered when there was only one DX11 game out. And there were threads here and elsewhere that proclaimed morphological AA was the "deciding factor" because it adds AA to the 3 games that don't support AA and blurs them while destroying the HUD.

Yet when I post there are some features that work well in some games on NVIDIA products, and that they should be considered when buying a card, some act as if I've posted "The Earth is flat! They knew it in Columbus's day, it's still true now!".

Every feature I listed is unique to NVIDIA cards* and works well in some games on some NVIDIA hardware. Like the GTX590 the thread is about.

This may be what I like BEST about my GTX590. I can play on one monitor in 3d, I can play on three monitors in 3d. I can turn on PhysX, Cuda water, or AO, or not. The 590 gives me the option to add immersion enhancing features while competitor's products limit me.


*with the exception of 3d, but the limitations of ATi's 3d are so great I don't consider it ready for market
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Old 04-17-11, 10:15 AM   #184
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Features that enhance image quality also lower framerates? Ummm...yes, that's pretty much a rule.

Sometimes AO doesn't look right? OK, sounds good. I'd reply, "You still have the option to use it where it does look right and you can't on ATi cards on games that don't natively support AO.". Having it where it works >>>>>>>>not having it at all.

What's interesting about all of this is if ATi had these features and NVIDIA did not, a lot of people would be saying they are the ONLY things that matter. I remember an ATi fan telling me DX11 was the only thing that mattered when there was only one DX11 game out. And there were threads here and elsewhere that proclaimed morphological AA was the "deciding factor" because it adds AA to the 3 games that don't support AA and blurs them while destroying the HUD.

Yet when I post there are some features that work well in some games on NVIDIA products, and that they should be considered when buying a card, some act as if I've posted "The Earth is flat! They knew it in Columbus's day, it's still true now!".

Every feature I listed is unique to NVIDIA cards* and works well in some games on some NVIDIA hardware. Like the GTX590 the thread is about.

This may be what I like BEST about my GTX590. I can play on one monitor in 3d, I can play on three monitors in 3d. I can turn on PhysX, Cuda water, or AO, or not. The 590 gives me the option to add immersion enhancing features while competitor's products limit me.


*with the exception of 3d, but the limitations of ATi's 3d are so great I don't consider it ready for market
Well, NVIDIA cards are more expensive, so you have to weigh up whether AO, CUDA and PhysX are worth the extra cost compared to their performance less vs enhancement. I wouldn't call a "forced" feature a worthy price.
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Old 04-17-11, 10:40 AM   #185
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Well, NVIDIA cards are more expensive, so you have to weigh up whether AO, CUDA and PhysX are worth the extra cost compared to their performance less vs enhancement. I wouldn't call a "forced" feature a worthy price.
Actually, the 590 has the same MSRP as the 6990. Next?
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Old 04-17-11, 10:50 AM   #186
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Welcome to AO, home of super dark corners and out of place shadows.
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Old 04-17-11, 10:50 AM   #187
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

I'm not on the defensive all the time, so yeah, next. MSRP is just a guide, most of the time AMD sell cheaper
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Old 04-17-11, 12:15 PM   #188
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Welcome to AO, home of super dark corners and out of place shadows.
Welcome to the Radeon 6990 feature set. It was great when ATi launched it with the Radeon VIVO in the year 2000, and it's like an old friend in 2011!
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Old 04-17-11, 12:20 PM   #189
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Welcome to the Radeon 6990 feature set. It was great when ATi launched it with the Radeon VIVO in the year 2000, and it's like an old friend in 2011!
That made sense. O wait, no it didn't.
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Old 04-17-11, 12:35 PM   #190
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

Can nvidia do any of this?
- Change tessellation levels
- MLAA
- Edge Detect AA
- EQ AA
- Supersampling without a third party program
- Custom power control

So really, if you wan't to argue features like AO, nvidia is the one lacking.
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Old 04-17-11, 12:55 PM   #191
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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Can nvidia do any of this?
- Change tessellation levels
- MLAA
- Edge Detect AA
- EQ AA
- Supersampling without a third party program
- Custom power control

So really, if you wan't to argue features like AO, nvidia is the one lacking.
ATi allows you to change tesselation levels because their cards are weaker in tesselation.

Errrr.....four of your 6 points are types of anti aliasing, and one of those NVIDIA cards have better IQ at. LOL

I'll give you that ATi cards do give you the ability to change the power level and void your warranty as well as increase that record setting noise.
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Old 04-17-11, 03:18 PM   #192
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Default Re: GeForce GTX 590 Review Thread

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ATi allows you to change tesselation levels because their cards are weaker in tesselation.

Errrr.....four of your 6 points are types of anti aliasing, and one of those NVIDIA cards have better IQ at. LOL

I'll give you that ATi cards do give you the ability to change the power level and void your warranty as well as increase that record setting noise.
Four of my 6 points may be AA, So nvidia has one of those AA modes, that gives ATI 5 points more, subtract one for physx gimic, and it seems like ATI has 4 more features... funny. lol

Changing the power level voids your warranty? News to me..

Also, sure nvidia cards are faster with retarded levels of tessellation like in Unigine heaven. Though when you bring those levels down to realistic levels of which you might see in games in the future, the ATI cards leap ahead.
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