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Old 05-04-11, 08:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

Oooh I may have to pick up a 28nm HD6000 card when it launches.
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Old 05-05-11, 07:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Oooh I may have to pick up a 28nm HD6000 card when it launches.

hmm dont u mean 7000?
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Old 05-05-11, 08:08 AM   #15
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hmm dont u mean 7000?
Yes and no. Article says first 28nm ATI part will be an HD6000 refresh. So it will probably carry the 7000 name, but it's just a faster clocked 6000.
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Old 05-05-11, 06:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

Could just be a midrange pipe-cleaner like they did with the 4770 on 40nm. Depends what NV is doing I guess, this time both companies are very eager to move on to the new process. It couldn't come any sooner.
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Old 05-05-11, 07:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Could just be a midrange pipe-cleaner like they did with the 4770 on 40nm. Depends what NV is doing I guess, this time both companies are very eager to move on to the new process. It couldn't come any sooner.

It might happen, as we all know what happened with fermi and Nvidia trying to launch a 3+ billion transistor part at 40 nm directly and it didn't quite go as planned, so with this 28nm process, and potentially allowing 5+ billion transistor budgets, trying to pull that off on the first try at 28nm may be unwise to say the least..


So i can imagine a 28nm version of Fermi and running at 1 Ghz+ while using less power than the 40nm version, but like it's been mentioned already, it all depends on what ATI does too...It wouldn't kill them to make a smaller, cheaper version of Cayman, as it's quite large at 40nm as it is....The second largest GPU they've ever designed after the original R600.
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Old 05-05-11, 11:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

Both could rehash their mid-high end parts (6870/560) to mid range parts with a shrink too, make them a 7770 and 650. Although I'd rather see true next gen parts, especially from AMD as the 6870 is already old hat with its VLIW-5 shaders. I still think even AMD will be more hasty to get a high end part out before anything else though.
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Old 05-06-11, 12:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Both could rehash their mid-high end parts (6870/560) to mid range parts with a shrink too, make them a 7770 and 650. Although I'd rather see true next gen parts, especially from AMD as the 6870 is already old hat with its VLIW-5 shaders. I still think even AMD will be more hasty to get a high end part out before anything else though.


It depends a lot on just how much volume can TSMC produce at 28nm also, since i remember a news article a couple of months ago where they mentioned that income from 28nm production will only represent about 3% of their profits in 2011....It's really very little since they have to convert more factories with the equipement needed to make 28nm products and that takes time and is expensive...


So we might have the similar situation as to what happened when the 40nm process became available and ATI showed the first Cypress wafers about 2 years ago, but when the cards were launched in late september, there wasn't a huge amount of them available for purchase and they sold out within a week or 2(HD 5850/HD 5870), so it's pretty obvious that TSMC wasn't cranking out a lot of them....


So with that in mind and at least initially, with 28nm wafers being relatively limited, it makes sense to devote it to a smaller and simpler GPU design so that they can crank out more good chips per wafer, rather than bring out the bigger Gpu designs right off the bat, and risk having what's basically considered a paper launch by only having a few thousand of them, and having to allocate those cards between ISV's and the cards sell out in a few days, then users have to wait weeks for the second batch to arrive....
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Old 06-10-11, 03:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Hold on...

40 divided by 28 is 1.42857....

1.42857... squared is 2.0408... so you can get a double the number of transistors in the same space moving from 40 to 28nm. That's just over 6.4 billion transistors unless my maths is completely off.

The reduction has to be squared to make it work for a square chip doesn't it?
Yes, you're correct. The other guy's 60% calculation is wrong - you square the ratio, not multiply by two. Learn to trust yourself more
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Old 06-13-11, 06:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Yes, you're correct. The other guy's 60% calculation is wrong - you square the ratio, not multiply by two. Learn to trust yourself more
wht do you thing they chose 28nm? cause its half of 20nm in area. you always have to square for area.
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Old 06-16-11, 01:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

Assuming the structure of the transistor itself is also a perfect square, wich it isn't.....


It's not just of the surface area to be considered here, but also what's inside that area in terms of overall shape and how closely they can be packed together, how much power they use and how much heat is dispersed too....
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Old 06-29-11, 09:46 AM   #23
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

I lay down the rule of thumb! Be damned with my silly calculation

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Old 06-29-11, 09:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

I think one of the "rumor" website mentioned that NV will start with mid range GPUs (with relative mid/low range transistor count)) to try and qualify the process (ala ATi with 6XXX series) and then big mamas will be popped out some time later. So, we may to wait a little longer for the flagship Kepler GPUs
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