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Old 06-22-11, 12:18 PM   #13
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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Originally Posted by slaWter View Post
3GB cars are pointless for your system. And Quad SLI doesn't scale good and you'd be insanely limited by that AMD system your running.

This is a point on which I agree with Rollo
You know even more than I how the CPU factors into multi GPU. (as I've never had a set as powerful as 3 X GTX580)

The AMD has to go first, or money is wasted on graphics.
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Old 06-22-11, 02:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
It only says one display in his sig, if three I'd recommend two of the new 2.5GB GTX570s over the two 3GB 580s unless money is no object. Either way, he's CPU limited already.

Dual core cards are exactly the same as using SLi in terms of how they rely on AFR.
Ahh, I saw "3D" and was thinking 3 displays.... because that's the only reason I could have imagined him needing a 590 anyway lol

I agree.... more graphics horsepower at this point is pointless because of the resolution the display will be running at. Probably going to be CPU bottlenecked before anything.... That's not something I'd worry about though since even that ceiling is very high.
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Old 06-22-11, 06:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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Originally Posted by snowmanwithahat View Post
I think I saw that he's running 3 displays, in which case you could definitely see the benefit moving to more graphics horsepower.

Also as a general note... dual-core cards don't count as using SLI... I could use a 295 / 590 on my system and even though it's a P45 chipset it will work.
so you mean you have a 295 and a 590 in a p45 system? I thought all socket 775 systems were crossfire limited unless you are using a hack. Anyhow, two dual gpu cards in my system work for two way sli like you said then? Yes, I know guys, a AMD limited cpu for scaling.
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Old 06-22-11, 06:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

He means he could use a 295 or 590 on a P45 because the SLI controller is on the card itself. But it still very much is SLI, just not on the motherboard. There is still processing overhead from AFR on those cards which is why a Sandy Bridge system is the way to go.
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Old 06-22-11, 08:33 PM   #17
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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He means he could use a 295 or 590 on a P45 because the SLI controller is on the card itself. But it still very much is SLI, just not on the motherboard. There is still processing overhead from AFR on those cards which is why a Sandy Bridge system is the way to go.
This.... while the 2 cards are implemented with 2 gpus in an sli configuration, it's not limited by the motherboard chipset.
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Old 06-23-11, 07:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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so you mean you have a 295 and a 590 in a p45 system? I thought all socket 775 systems were crossfire limited unless you are using a hack. Anyhow, two dual gpu cards in my system work for two way sli like you said then? Yes, I know guys, a AMD limited cpu for scaling.
wheeljack12:

I don't know anything about hacking AMD motherboards to run SLi, but I do know that adding a second GTX590 will cost you far more than it will benefit you.

Even with an i7 at 3.7GHz the benefits of going quad at your resolution are pretty much limited to Metro and Crysis.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...0-sli-review/1

Where you would see the benefit of quad is at 3d- if you had a cpu that could feed the four GTX590 GPUs.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...rifire_redux/2

Quote:
We thought there might be some CPU limitedness going on with triple-GPU performance, but we had no idea GTX 580 3-Way SLI was being held back so much by the CPU in at least two specific scenarios.
And that's with three GTX580s, and going from 3.7GHz i7 to 4.8GHz i7- your AMD CPU is far below a 3.7GHz i7.

Your thread actually prompted me to sell my Phenom II motherboard and order an i7 2500K/SLi 1155 motherboard for my son's computer. (and the benchmarks I ran on the 2GB GTX560Ti SLi rig)

The bottom line is you need to greatly increase your cpu output before considering updating your video, which is actually very well suited to your display. I'd be happy to run some benchmarks on one 3d monitor to compare with you so we could test the theory.

I have a 3.4GHz i7 and a GTX590, we could get an idea of how much the Phenom II is holding you back.
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Old 06-23-11, 08:41 AM   #19
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

sure Rollo. I wouldn't mind that. BTW, If I went Sandy bridge, this is the mb I would go with.

http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Int...WS_Revolution/

true 16x/16x via nf200 and intel lan, now that's a mb!

anyhow, I went ahead and asked gigabyte about quad sli support on the board just for the info.
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Old 06-23-11, 11:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

wheeljack12, you should probably read this before deciding on a motherboard:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/41...sis/index.html

It seems that in most cases, a P67 setup via x8/x8 PCIe is actually faster than a solution with the nf200 chip @ x16/x16. Something to consider.

EDIT: This is done by 2 single GPU cards, though. If you want 2 dual GPU cards, the x16/x16 solution may be better. If you're doing dual 3GB GTX 580's though, I would go with the intel solution without the nf200 chip.
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Old 06-24-11, 05:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

3 GTX 580 3GB's, because where it counts (where 3 or 4 SLI really makes a difference), you need the vid-mem too, so the GTX590 start to run out of it.

And, a Geforce takes a lot more advantage of the nForce200 chip on the P67, se hard OCP and see the forums for Vega, who did some tests with 3 GTX580 3GB's.
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Old 06-24-11, 10:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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3 GTX 580 3GB's, because where it counts (where 3 or 4 SLI really makes a difference), you need the vid-mem too, so the GTX590 start to run out of it.

And, a Geforce takes a lot more advantage of the nForce200 chip on the P67, se hard OCP and see the forums for Vega, who did some tests with 3 GTX580 3GB's.
Errrr...you just recommended a guy with a 19X10 monitor buy three 3GB GTX580s, on a Phenom II CPU.

I think we can take it as a given that if I am recommending the OP not spend money on NVIDIA products, it must be a pretty bad idea. (see sig)

19X10 isn't where you need more than 1.5GB, 57X10 is where you start to run into issues at 1.5GB.

While you're referencing HardOCP, their article on CPU scaling with the 3 X GTX580s getting a huge boost when going to a 4.8Ghz SB CPU is good evidence of how very CPU limited the OP would be with his PhenomII.

He really should be selling his AMD mobo for a couple hundred, buying a 2600K motherboard, and seeing where that takes his performance on the monitor he has.
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Old 06-25-11, 05:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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I had 3 GTX 580 3GBs and my 4.1GHz 980X was not fast enough for them.
Exactly, but it's probably great for two of them.

I used to be like the OP, until I tried to add a second 8800GTX to my AMD FX60 rig and saw I wasn't getting near the scaling the reviewers did with C2D processors.

I saw it again with the Phenom II 965 and SLi'd GTX480s and 2GB GTX560s.

A 4.1GHz i7 is a good enough cpu to get some scaling on the three 580s, but that H article showed 4.8 is better. I've always had a theory that NVIDIA GPU scaling looks worse than ATi's at times because the GPU starts out at higher performance for a single GPU, and the smaller percentage of scaling is a function of the multiple GPUs being more CPU limited.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/...rifire_redux/6

This article seems to prove out my theory; however, I don't know if I agree 100% with Kyle's assertion the ATi cards are more efficient is a preferable situation. While it is good they achieve their maximum level of performance with less CPU power, what about people like you who need more graphics power? The performance of the NVIDIA GPUs appears to keep climbing as more CPU speed is applied, which is a good thing for people trying to run extreme resolutions like you are. (or 3d Vision surround or 3d Surround with Physx)
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Old 06-25-11, 07:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: debating a second gtx 590 or two gtx 580 3gb's

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Errrr...you just recommended a guy with a 19X10 monitor buy three 3GB GTX580s, on a Phenom II CPU.

I think we can take it as a given that if I am recommending the OP not spend money on NVIDIA products, it must be a pretty bad idea. (see sig)

19X10 isn't where you need more than 1.5GB, 57X10 is where you start to run into issues at 1.5GB.

While you're referencing HardOCP, their article on CPU scaling with the 3 X GTX580s getting a huge boost when going to a 4.8Ghz SB CPU is good evidence of how very CPU limited the OP would be with his PhenomII.

He really should be selling his AMD mobo for a couple hundred, buying a 2600K motherboard, and seeing where that takes his performance on the monitor he has.
Ooops, I read to quick and thought the TS considered 3 GTX580's vs 2 GTX590's. But you're right, for the balance of his system he's better of with a sandy bridge system, then adding more GPU perf..
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