Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Microsoft Windows 7

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-19-09, 01:59 AM   #1
Rakeesh
 
Rakeesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sonoran Desert
Posts: 6,865
Default Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Just wanted to point out that the monitor calibration tool in windows 7 isn't terribly accurate when it comes to gamma calibration. The little dot test method it uses is too subjective (no matter where I put the slider, I always ended up with some kind of a dot in the middle - the software leaves it up to you to guess how big or small that dot should be.)

When you adjust the gamma slider, I would normalize (as opposed to maximize) the window size so that you can pull up your web browser side by side with it while you adjust the slider, and use this:

http://www.normankoren.com/makingfin...tml#gammachart

Like the page says, aim for 2.2. The information on there is slightly outdated too btw, as of OSX 10.6 macs now use 2.2 instead of 1.8. If you aren't sure if you nailed it correctly with that one, you can always check it with this one:

http://www.photoscientia.co.uk/Gamma.htm#menu

IMPORTANT: If you have an LCD screen, make sure your eyes are directly in front of where you are looking when you make the gamma adjustment, while at the same time far away from the screen (squinting helps too.)

Gamma correction is probably the most important yet overlooked aspect of getting accurate colors out of your monitor, and if you have it wrong then you probably have other things wrong too.
Rakeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 02:38 AM   #2
shilk
Registered User
 
shilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Posts: 913
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

I also agree. So many people don't even know how to calibrate their gamma, that it's unbelieveable.

I already had those sites bookmarked a long time ago. I also had these in my bookmarks...

http://www.beautifulbritain.co.uk/ht...etup_black.htm
http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

Now a lot of people disagree with the gradient bar test method, but if you've used Photoshop, you can open up the ever-so-famous "fruit lady" picture and adjust the output with the info panel (F8) readout. When you mouse over the colors, you get accurate RGB and CMYK information. Prinitng is always CMYK. This method is rarely used anymore as monitors and LCDs have gotten much better over the years, but there's other .tiffs you can use to adjust accurate color as well. Here's the fruit lady page with more info from Adobe for reference. I've been using Photoshop since 2.1, and remember this fondly. But over the years, I've gotten so used to the gamma settings that's always second nature for me when I install new drivers.

With the way mentioned above, you get super-accurate photo color printing as well. Working with $500,000 AGFA machines in the print industry can get pretty costly if none of your monitors are calibrated correctly, lol. Not to mention how pricey a print run can get if some stupid intern or n00b didn't know any better.

"Hey Chuck, the print run was messed up. It's going to cost us another 20K to re-run the print, and it's coming out of your pay."

/me watches gleefully as they start crying.
shilk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 06:34 AM   #3
c00l
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

I had exactly that problem
thanks shilk
c00l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 06:44 AM   #4
c00l
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Is it also possible to adjust brightness?

thanks
c00l is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 12:27 PM   #5
Rakeesh
 
Rakeesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sonoran Desert
Posts: 6,865
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shilk View Post
I also agree. So many people don't even know how to calibrate their gamma, that it's unbelieveable.

I already had those sites bookmarked a long time ago. I also had these in my bookmarks...

http://www.beautifulbritain.co.uk/ht...etup_black.htm
http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
That is pretty nice. I don't suppose you know of any for calibrating the color balance? I can never seem to get the whites as "white" as I want them to be, and much like the gamma calibration, the windows monitor calibration tool leaves a lot to be desired here.

I've never been able to find any good methods for nailing this precisely. Every time I think I've nailed it I see something that looks too red, too green, or too blue, but never "white."
Rakeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 02:21 PM   #6
shilk
Registered User
 
shilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Posts: 913
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Is it only for printing? What kind of monitor is it? CRT, LCD?

For me, I crank the Brightness on the monitor all the way up and then use the gamma setting to set it. Then if it's too bright, slowly pull the Brightness setting back. My LCD is crappy, so it's always sitting at maximum brightness. I usually don't mess with the colors since I'm using DVI. Try using sRGB or User Defined settings. The latter will allow you to change the individual RGB settings as you see fit.

I guess it would all depend on the monitor as well. The different Color Adjustments for the monitor play an important role here. Also, if you're not using the DVI connector, you'll want to use that instead it's a definite must. Although my LCD is uber crappy (hey, it was free so I'm not complaining), I've still managed to pull off great calibration with it without making everything else washed out.

Usually, there's sRGB, 9300K, 6500K, 5400K, and User Adjusted settings for the monitor. Most of the time, sRGB is used. While the other settings listed above depend on the ambient lighting in the room, most printing presses use 9300 and 6500K. You can see the difference between 9300 (as it makes your monitor more blue) and 6500 (as it makes it a little more brown). They key is to find the balance where picking one of the settings and calibrating the other colors to balance them out.

If the monitor can't output the exact colors for printing, a test print is usually done and then used as a reference alongside the screen to adjust the different brightness settings without touching the gamma. The gamma is always set it's the other color adjustments you need to make such as Brightness, Contrast, and Color. Never change the gamma after you set it. Always change it via monitor when tweaking the rest.

Another thing that bugs me is that a ton of game companies never use proper gamma, and it's a royal pain in the ass to have to keep adjusting it while in the game. The only recent game I've played that used proper gamma was World of Warcraft. They have a "Use Dektop Gamma" setting in their gamma control. Just check it, and it makes the game look so much better when using it. All other games have seperate gamma and brightness controls and it's a pain in the ass. Actually, now that I think about it, Left 4 Dead has a similar gamma setting too. It's not like WoW's but it actually had a proper gamma slider.
shilk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 06:10 PM   #7
Rakeesh
 
Rakeesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sonoran Desert
Posts: 6,865
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shilk View Post
Is it only for printing? What kind of monitor is it? CRT, LCD?
No this is mainly for gaming and watching movies, and it's an LCD monitor using a DVI connection. I'll occasionally do picture editing but its very rare and mainly for graphics rather than photos. Just when I see something white, I like it to be really white rather than kinda white. This is past the point where you've adjusted the gamma.

Hard to explain what I am trying to do. Think in terms of how when you change the color temperature, you end up with a more orange looking white on warm, and a more blue looking white on cool. The neutral color looks a bit more green to me on the other hand. I want it to look white rather than green if you get what I am saying, and it is hard to establish a neutral color even if I adjust the RGB offsets in the service menu.
Rakeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-09, 06:20 PM   #8
shilk
Registered User
 
shilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Posts: 913
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

What LCD is it, if you don't mind me asking? My LCD has a crappy contrast ratio, so my blacks usually come out grey or even have the weird bleeding effect. I posted this issue in The Witcher topic a long time ago with screenshots about what I mean. If it's a fairly new LCD, the issue isn't as prominent as it used to be, but it can still happen.

I get what you're trying to say. There's a ton of similar issues with monitors both LCD and CRT. You can have the same exact model side-by-side, and the color output will be different in most cases.
shilk is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 10-19-09, 06:52 PM   #9
Rakeesh
 
Rakeesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sonoran Desert
Posts: 6,865
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shilk View Post
What LCD is it, if you don't mind me asking? My LCD has a crappy contrast ratio, so my blacks usually come out grey or even have the weird bleeding effect. I posted this issue in The Witcher topic a long time ago with screenshots about what I mean. If it's a fairly new LCD, the issue isn't as prominent as it used to be, but it can still happen.

I get what you're trying to say. There's a ton of similar issues with monitors both LCD and CRT. You can have the same exact model side-by-side, and the color output will be different in most cases.
It is a Westinghouse LVM-47W1. I've had this problem on every LCD monitor I've ever owned, so it could be just a matter of bias since everybody's oppinion of what is white and what isn't tends to be different. In general this monitor is very decent when it comes to accuracy (I've owned a few Dell, Samsung, and Sony monitors, and this one is by far the best I've had in terms of accuracy.)

This "monitor" is actually marketed more as a TV, but IMO it's much more of a monitor (for starters, it doesn't have a tuner of any kind) and it's a good one at that.
Rakeesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-09, 07:19 PM   #10
Richteralan
The Enigma
 
Richteralan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 758
Send a message via ICQ to Richteralan Send a message via MSN to Richteralan
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

some of those links only provides single gamma test graph which is not accurate.
most LCD panels don't have uniform per-channel gamma.

it's better to adjust RGB channels separately.
Richteralan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-11, 08:36 AM   #11
Telehubby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 5
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakeesh View Post
Just wanted to point out that the monitor calibration tool in windows 7 isn't terribly accurate when it comes to gamma calibration. The little dot test method it uses is too subjective (no matter where I put the slider, I always ended up with some kind of a dot in the middle - the software leaves it up to you to guess how big or small that dot should be.)
I thought the same thing about the monitor calibration tool in Windows 7. I am glad that I am not the only one who is confused about this, I was thinking that I simply didn't understand what I was doing. I appreciate the links, I think this will be very helpful to me as I attempt to accurately calibrate my monitor. While we're talking about monitors, I was wondering where would be a good place to buy a new monitor? Should I check out hhgregg? Thank you.

Last edited by Telehubby; 07-05-11 at 02:02 PM.
Telehubby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-11, 02:57 PM   #12
mullet
 
mullet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,054
Default Re: Gamma correction in windows 7 (don't trust the built in test!)

LUTS+ICC profile done.
mullet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.