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Old 09-13-11, 09:51 PM   #1
k_ozz
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: WA
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Default New Build - Suggestions Please

Looking at putting together a computer for a friend of mine...


Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $69.99

HITACHI Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723015BLA642 (0F12114) 1.5TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $69.99

Asus VH238H Black 23" Full HD HDMI LED Backlight LCD Monitor w/Speakers $179.99

ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS $144.99

XFX HD-687X-CNFC Radeon HD 6870 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $224.99

High Current Pro HCP-750 750W TX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.92 SLI Certified CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular ... $169.99

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996995 $54.99

AMD Phenom II X4 970 Black Edition Deneb 3.5GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Desktop Processor HDZ970FBGMBOX $139.99

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - OEM $99.99

ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS - OEM $89.99

Also he has offered to kick me down some cash for the time spent assembling and loading windows and av and getting it up and running, what do you think is a fair price.

Thanks,

K
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Old 09-14-11, 01:57 AM   #2
Redeemed
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

I'm very particular about PSUs. Is this the PSU you're considering? If so, probably not the first one I'd go for but it should do the trick regardless.

However, I would get this RAM instead.

Not sure that Phenom 970 is the best buy... $30 more will get you a PhenomII x6 1090T or $20 more will get you a PhenomII x6 1055T Those two extra cores go a long ways. Not only that but those chips aren't terrible overclockers either.

I've been eyeing that exact 6870 however for $25 more you could land the 6950.

Otherwise everything else looks great. I'm assuming this will be a gaming rig, that correct?
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Old 09-14-11, 02:47 AM   #3
k_ozz
 
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Thanks,

I was considering the HCP-750, wanted something modular, I have a CP-850 and its been good for me, what's a PS that you would use?

Have to swap ram out, and thanks for the catch on the CPU and video card. Gonna show him the price tomorrow, and see what he thinks.

Yes its for gaming.

Thanks Again.
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Old 09-14-11, 03:15 AM   #4
bob saget
 
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

solid build. redeemed knows his stuff <3
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Old 09-14-11, 12:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ozz View Post
Thanks,

I was considering the HCP-750, wanted something modular, I have a CP-850 and its been good for me, what's a PS that you would use?

Have to swap ram out, and thanks for the catch on the CPU and video card. Gonna show him the price tomorrow, and see what he thinks.

Yes its for gaming.

Thanks Again.
Well, to clarify my stance regarding PSUs- they're very much the heart of any computer system. Think about it- they provide the life blood (electricity) for your computer. Whether it is just checking e-mail, playing video games, or rendering HD video you want a solid, reliable PSU. One that is a high-quality build, provides clean power to each component and is rediculously reliable, stable, and if something were to happen like a power surge will protect your components.

I mentioned that the one you chose wouldn't be my first pick simply because I've never used one. Since I'm so particular regarding PSUs I stick to brands that have done well for me. I'm sold on Silverstone, OCZ, and SeaSonic. That isn't to say those are the three only good brands, just that they're the three brands I stick with.

Antec used to be a rather crap company regarding PSUs. However, over the past couple years they seem to have really stepped up their game. If I saw a very good deal on a PSU of theirs that met my needs I'd not be opposed to buying it and trying them out.

It's just the thing of it is, a PSU isn't like the CPU, RAM, HDD, or Video Card where you want to be upgrading it ever year. No, instead you want to buy one and run it as long as possible. Take the PSU I have, the one in my sig. It's a SilverStone Zeus ST85ZF , 850 watts with up to 70A when combining the 12v rails. I bought it back in 2006 just before purchasing my two 640MB 8800GTSs. I bought it to power those two cards and... to last me a long time. 6 years later it's still going strong. I've changed CPUs, MOBOs, RAM, HDDs, Video Cards, and even Cases but I've kept this PSU through all those upgrades. If you read that review I did drop near $300 for this PSU back then, but it was money well spent as I've not needed to purchase another PSU since then.

That said, $300 for a PSU now days is a stretch. As I said before Antec has really improved their PSUs over the years and $170 after MIR for that 850 watt PSU is pretty amazing, especially considering all the amps it's pushing on each 12v line. However, that many amps per 12v line is also something to be wary of. 160a total for the 12v rail... seems... a bit too good to be true. You normally wont see that till you get to well over 1000 watts. Here's a 1200 Watt Silverstone that only has 100A on a single 12v rail. Now when you break up the 12v rail into several you are able to squeeze more amps onto for the given wattage but that only goes so far. Here's a 1500 watt Silverstone with eight 12v rails, 25A each. That's 200A total for your 12v rails. That is a lot of freakin' power.

My point is the fact that Antec is pushing so much power through each rail with so little wattage would be concerning to me. With the hardware you've presently chosen your friend won't be pushing the PSU anywhere near it's limits. At most he may put that PSU under ~50% load but not much beyond that. The single most power consuming component in your build is the videocard and the one chosen is a very efficient unit.

I'm not certain what your budget is precisely, so I'm not certain what PSU to recommend. For myself I'd stick with Silverstone first, OCZ second, Seasonic third. Corsair and Antec make great units from the reviews I've read however... a review cannot let you know whether a PSU will last 5 years, 10 years, or only 6 months. However, when picking out a psu there are several things you can do to help increase the odds of the PSU lasting. One is buy more than you need. If you need only 550watts (meaning, you'll be consuming 550watts), don't buy a 550 watt PSU. Purchase 750watts or greater. If you'll be using 750watts then buy a 1KW or greater PSU. And of course, make certain it's from a reputable brand.

The key here is that when you're computer is under load, the PSU doesn't have to be. Even if your CPU is pegged at 100%, your GPU pegged at 100%, and RAM 100%- doesn't mean your PSU has to be pegged at 100%. The key here is when putting your system under "load" the PSU itself is actually not at full load. At most I've consumed up to 650watts with my system. That's 200 watts under what my PSU is able to deliver. I've never, not once, had my PSU itself under full load providing it's peak 850watts. But there have been numerous occassions where my CPU, RAM, GPUs, or all of the above have been fully taxed. So by having a PSU that is greater than what I'll actually consume I'm putting less strain and less wear and tear on the unit. And with it already being a solid unit I'm ensuring it'll last me all that much longer.

As it stands I don't have any immediate plans to replace this PSU. It is over half a decade old so, come to think of it within the next year or two I may want to consider a replacement and retire this one from my primary rig. But as you can tell it's not a major concern of mine.

So just keep these things in mind when choosing a PSU. So many amps on that 12v line kinda' throws me off of that PSU. I'm sure it'll deliver that, but for how long can it sustain that? I'd be wary of it. The downside of a PSU is that if it fails, it can take the entire computer with it. Imagine what could happen if your PSU fails and it shoots 12v down the 3.3v line, all the components it could damage... now with all the power that PSU can pump to each 12v rail, if it fails, it can also pump a ton of power through circuitry not designed for that kinda' juice.

For the hardware you've chosen I'd stay at an 850watt PSU. Preferrably a single 12v rail, but four 12v rails wont hurt anything either. Here's an 850watt Corsair with 70a on a single 12v rail. $120 after MIR. I'd honestly go with that one over the Antec you chose.

Anyhow, sorry for the long winded post there it's just the PSU is a very critical component for any build so I always feel it appropriate to spend the most time on the PSU compared to other components.

As to the CPU, RAM, and Video card- your call ultimately. I'm sold on G.Skill as I've had such great luck with them. Again though, that's not saying they're the only solid company out there. $40 for 8GB however... freakin' steal.

The CPU, well that 970 will be faster in single-threaded apps because of it's higher clock speed. So if he'll be running a lot of older programs, or just a lot of programs that aren't multi-threaded then he'll see a greater benefit with a faster quad core. If he is planning on playing mostly newer titles than I'd go with a six-core. 3.2Ghz 1090T for $170. Only $30 more than the 970 you originally chose and it will be more beneficial long-term if he's planning on running modern apps. Multi-threaded applications are the future, so having a system built around that premise will help it age better. But if he won't be using modern programs and will mostly run older programs, older programs aren't mult-threaded typically so a higher clock speed per core would be more beneficial for him.

And then on that video card... well, that's a tough one. The 6870 isn't a slow GPU and with 2GB of RAM... that's a lot of framebuffer. What resolution will he be gaming at? Will he be concerned with anti-aliasing? The only reason I've been eyeing that exact 6870 is because it's under $200 after MIR. I'd also suspect it has a bit more OC headroom than what that factory OC is. Spec wise it's not too far behind a 6950 while it could save you $50. Maybe stick with that GPU and put that $50 towards the six core CPU.

Come to think about, with the money shaved off from that Corsair PSU, money shaved off from that G.Skill RAM you could jump him up to the 1100T six-core which has a 3.7GHz turbo mode. If he's running a single threaded app he'd see great performance there because of the higher clock speed.

That's probably the direction I'd go- get that 850watt Corsair PSU - $120 after MIR (saved $50). You can now put that $50 towards the CPU and you already have that PhenomII x6 1100T without spending any extra money. This RAM is showing up as $51 on it's direct page, but if you look here it's saying $39. I just added it to my cart and it showed $51. Wierd. You may contact Newegg and see if that's a typo or what. It was showing $39 last night with no indication of that being a sale of any kind, just a regular price drop. If you can get that RAM it'll shave another $15 off the build cost.

Sorry about the long post and long read- but didn't feel like cutting any corners on the explainations and without know how up to speed you are on all of this I'd rather error on the side of caution by explaining more than you needed, than not enough. I hope it was helpful.

When you have it all put together be sure to post back with your impressions.
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Old 09-14-11, 01:28 PM   #6
k_ozz
 
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Thanks!

I agree and plan on looking at the Corsair and other changes when I get home and adjust accordingly.

His budget is pretty much where its at now, but he would like do shave off about 50 if possible so i think everyting will work out great with your suggestions.

As far as I know he plans on playing at 1080.

Again thanks for the input and long post its enhances my knowledge, once its up and running I will post his thoughts.

K
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Old 09-14-11, 01:40 PM   #7
Redeemed
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

NP bro- glad I was able to help.
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Old 09-14-11, 02:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Nice job Deemed
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Old 09-14-11, 07:57 PM   #9
k_ozz
 
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Here is what I am going to show him tomorrow 1255 grand total, which is right around where he wanted it. If he wants to lower it a bit then I guess I can drop the CPU down, I had to keep the video card to keep the price close, and the HDD was OOS. Hes itching to order it so I can put it together for him.

Again, Thanks for the suggestions and information.

Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard

Asus VH238H Black 23" Full HD HDMI LED Backlight LCD Monitor w/Speakers

ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

XFX HD-687X-CNFC Radeon HD 6870 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz, 3.7GHz Turbo Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDE00ZFBGRBOX

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit

ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS


k_ozz
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Old 09-15-11, 01:08 AM   #10
Redeemed
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ozz View Post
Here is what I am going to show him tomorrow 1255 grand total, which is right around where he wanted it. If he wants to lower it a bit then I guess I can drop the CPU down, I had to keep the video card to keep the price close, and the HDD was OOS. Hes itching to order it so I can put it together for him.

Again, Thanks for the suggestions and information.

Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard

Asus VH238H Black 23" Full HD HDMI LED Backlight LCD Monitor w/Speakers

ASUS M5A99X EVO AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard with UEFI BIOS

XFX HD-687X-CNFC Radeon HD 6870 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V v2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz, 3.7GHz Turbo Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDE00ZFBGRBOX

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit

ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS


k_ozz
Ahh dang- the price on that RAM went up to $51 now. Was $39.99 just a few nights ago.

Anywho, if he's content with that price then go ahead and order it and throw it all together for him. That 1100T will be great cause it has the 6 cores for excellent multi-threaded performance, but also in single threaded apps when turbo kicks in punching a single core up to 3.7Ghz that'll really help as well. I'm certain he'll enjoy it.

And again, you're very welcome. Glad I was able to help. Just be certian to post pics of the final build and some gaming results with that setup. I'm really interested in that 6870 myself simply cause the price is right... but I can't make up my mind if I should snag one or wait till early next year for the 7950 or 7970.
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Old 09-15-11, 01:18 AM   #11
bob saget
 
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
Well, to clarify my stance regarding PSUs- they're very much the heart of any computer system. Think about it- they provide the life blood (electricity) for your computer. Whether it is just checking e-mail, playing video games, or rendering HD video you want a solid, reliable PSU. One that is a high-quality build, provides clean power to each component and is rediculously reliable, stable, and if something were to happen like a power surge will protect your components.

I mentioned that the one you chose wouldn't be my first pick simply because I've never used one. Since I'm so particular regarding PSUs I stick to brands that have done well for me. I'm sold on Silverstone, OCZ, and SeaSonic. That isn't to say those are the three only good brands, just that they're the three brands I stick with.

Antec used to be a rather crap company regarding PSUs. However, over the past couple years they seem to have really stepped up their game. If I saw a very good deal on a PSU of theirs that met my needs I'd not be opposed to buying it and trying them out.

It's just the thing of it is, a PSU isn't like the CPU, RAM, HDD, or Video Card where you want to be upgrading it ever year. No, instead you want to buy one and run it as long as possible. Take the PSU I have, the one in my sig. It's a SilverStone Zeus ST85ZF , 850 watts with up to 70A when combining the 12v rails. I bought it back in 2006 just before purchasing my two 640MB 8800GTSs. I bought it to power those two cards and... to last me a long time. 6 years later it's still going strong. I've changed CPUs, MOBOs, RAM, HDDs, Video Cards, and even Cases but I've kept this PSU through all those upgrades. If you read that review I did drop near $300 for this PSU back then, but it was money well spent as I've not needed to purchase another PSU since then.

That said, $300 for a PSU now days is a stretch. As I said before Antec has really improved their PSUs over the years and $170 after MIR for that 850 watt PSU is pretty amazing, especially considering all the amps it's pushing on each 12v line. However, that many amps per 12v line is also something to be wary of. 160a total for the 12v rail... seems... a bit too good to be true. You normally wont see that till you get to well over 1000 watts. Here's a 1200 Watt Silverstone that only has 100A on a single 12v rail. Now when you break up the 12v rail into several you are able to squeeze more amps onto for the given wattage but that only goes so far. Here's a 1500 watt Silverstone with eight 12v rails, 25A each. That's 200A total for your 12v rails. That is a lot of freakin' power.

My point is the fact that Antec is pushing so much power through each rail with so little wattage would be concerning to me. With the hardware you've presently chosen your friend won't be pushing the PSU anywhere near it's limits. At most he may put that PSU under ~50% load but not much beyond that. The single most power consuming component in your build is the videocard and the one chosen is a very efficient unit.

I'm not certain what your budget is precisely, so I'm not certain what PSU to recommend. For myself I'd stick with Silverstone first, OCZ second, Seasonic third. Corsair and Antec make great units from the reviews I've read however... a review cannot let you know whether a PSU will last 5 years, 10 years, or only 6 months. However, when picking out a psu there are several things you can do to help increase the odds of the PSU lasting. One is buy more than you need. If you need only 550watts (meaning, you'll be consuming 550watts), don't buy a 550 watt PSU. Purchase 750watts or greater. If you'll be using 750watts then buy a 1KW or greater PSU. And of course, make certain it's from a reputable brand.

The key here is that when you're computer is under load, the PSU doesn't have to be. Even if your CPU is pegged at 100%, your GPU pegged at 100%, and RAM 100%- doesn't mean your PSU has to be pegged at 100%. The key here is when putting your system under "load" the PSU itself is actually not at full load. At most I've consumed up to 650watts with my system. That's 200 watts under what my PSU is able to deliver. I've never, not once, had my PSU itself under full load providing it's peak 850watts. But there have been numerous occassions where my CPU, RAM, GPUs, or all of the above have been fully taxed. So by having a PSU that is greater than what I'll actually consume I'm putting less strain and less wear and tear on the unit. And with it already being a solid unit I'm ensuring it'll last me all that much longer.

As it stands I don't have any immediate plans to replace this PSU. It is over half a decade old so, come to think of it within the next year or two I may want to consider a replacement and retire this one from my primary rig. But as you can tell it's not a major concern of mine.

So just keep these things in mind when choosing a PSU. So many amps on that 12v line kinda' throws me off of that PSU. I'm sure it'll deliver that, but for how long can it sustain that? I'd be wary of it. The downside of a PSU is that if it fails, it can take the entire computer with it. Imagine what could happen if your PSU fails and it shoots 12v down the 3.3v line, all the components it could damage... now with all the power that PSU can pump to each 12v rail, if it fails, it can also pump a ton of power through circuitry not designed for that kinda' juice.

For the hardware you've chosen I'd stay at an 850watt PSU. Preferrably a single 12v rail, but four 12v rails wont hurt anything either. Here's an 850watt Corsair with 70a on a single 12v rail. $120 after MIR. I'd honestly go with that one over the Antec you chose.

Anyhow, sorry for the long winded post there it's just the PSU is a very critical component for any build so I always feel it appropriate to spend the most time on the PSU compared to other components.

As to the CPU, RAM, and Video card- your call ultimately. I'm sold on G.Skill as I've had such great luck with them. Again though, that's not saying they're the only solid company out there. $40 for 8GB however... freakin' steal.

The CPU, well that 970 will be faster in single-threaded apps because of it's higher clock speed. So if he'll be running a lot of older programs, or just a lot of programs that aren't multi-threaded then he'll see a greater benefit with a faster quad core. If he is planning on playing mostly newer titles than I'd go with a six-core. 3.2Ghz 1090T for $170. Only $30 more than the 970 you originally chose and it will be more beneficial long-term if he's planning on running modern apps. Multi-threaded applications are the future, so having a system built around that premise will help it age better. But if he won't be using modern programs and will mostly run older programs, older programs aren't mult-threaded typically so a higher clock speed per core would be more beneficial for him.

And then on that video card... well, that's a tough one. The 6870 isn't a slow GPU and with 2GB of RAM... that's a lot of framebuffer. What resolution will he be gaming at? Will he be concerned with anti-aliasing? The only reason I've been eyeing that exact 6870 is because it's under $200 after MIR. I'd also suspect it has a bit more OC headroom than what that factory OC is. Spec wise it's not too far behind a 6950 while it could save you $50. Maybe stick with that GPU and put that $50 towards the six core CPU.

Come to think about, with the money shaved off from that Corsair PSU, money shaved off from that G.Skill RAM you could jump him up to the 1100T six-core which has a 3.7GHz turbo mode. If he's running a single threaded app he'd see great performance there because of the higher clock speed.

That's probably the direction I'd go- get that 850watt Corsair PSU - $120 after MIR (saved $50). You can now put that $50 towards the CPU and you already have that PhenomII x6 1100T without spending any extra money. This RAM is showing up as $51 on it's direct page, but if you look here it's saying $39. I just added it to my cart and it showed $51. Wierd. You may contact Newegg and see if that's a typo or what. It was showing $39 last night with no indication of that being a sale of any kind, just a regular price drop. If you can get that RAM it'll shave another $15 off the build cost.

Sorry about the long post and long read- but didn't feel like cutting any corners on the explainations and without know how up to speed you are on all of this I'd rather error on the side of caution by explaining more than you needed, than not enough. I hope it was helpful.

When you have it all put together be sure to post back with your impressions.
easily the longest post i have ever seen on nvnews.

for helping others, 'deemed.
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Old 09-15-11, 01:26 AM   #12
Redeemed
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Default Re: New Build - Suggestions Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob saget View Post
easily the longest post i have ever seen on nvnews.

for helping others, 'deemed.


Thanks Comrade Saget!

I don't answer these threads as often as I used to as it seems everybody has their opinion on what's the better deal- kinda' like going up to a group of mechanics and asking them all collectively which is better- Ford or Chevy.

Anywho I'm just glad I was able to assist.
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