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Old 12-07-11, 02:48 AM   #61
Logical
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

Keplar will be more powerful than the GTX 590. It's a no brainer...
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Old 12-07-11, 03:33 AM   #62
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Keplar will be more powerful than the GTX 590. It's a no brainer...
I doubt it. 28nm doesn't have the scaling for that.
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Old 12-07-11, 09:23 AM   #63
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I doubt it. 28nm doesn't have the scaling for that.
Hmm you don't even know what the keplar architecture looks like and why won't the 28nm node scale for it, what does that even mean.......
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Old 12-07-11, 03:39 PM   #64
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Keplar will be more powerful than the GTX 590. It's a no brainer...
I don't see it happening but one can hope.

I mean, other than the 580, what good did the 5xx series do for speed? Yes less heat, but..

460 = 560
470 = 560 ti
480 = 570

580 was the only true step up.

590 offers way too much performance to be taken down so quickly, I get the 28nm process but for years now, nothing ever materializes the way it's rumored to, there's always a heat issue, or a power issue, etc. ALWAYS.
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Old 12-07-11, 04:55 PM   #65
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Hmm you don't even know what the keplar architecture looks like and why won't the 28nm node scale for it, what does that even mean.......
...and you can't even spell kepler so why should I bother answering you?
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Old 12-07-11, 05:48 PM   #66
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...and you can't even spell kepler so why should I bother answering you?
Trollololol
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Old 12-08-11, 09:26 AM   #67
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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...and you can't even spell kepler so why should I bother answering you?
oh sorry excuse me for the typo, you didn't answer my question, what does scaling mean between two different processes and two different architectures?

I'm not going to say if its going to be faster or slower than the 590, I just don't see how you can come to your reasoning.
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Old 12-08-11, 11:15 AM   #68
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Skyrim is poorly coded on PC's, those slow downs are more caused by being cpu-bound, which is insane considering how far ahead cpu's are of gpu's. People with 580's in sli and people with a single 460 both report low frames in the same scenes - more pointing to cpu.

As far as these gpu's charts, rumors have always offset reality for years. But as far as I see it.

1.) Ati - even if it releases cards 6 months ahead of nvidia, have a lot of work to do between performance/speed and image quality. The drivers are a mess right now, Image Quality is suspect at best and speed is not up to nvidia's parts.

2.) Nvidia IS more focused on other aspects of their company, especially Tegra. I imagine they're also in line and testing for whatever gpu Sony buys from them for the ps4 as well.

3.) Nvidia doesn't NEED something right now. I don't know how much more powerful it gets than a GTX 590. Even Metro runs with that beast. Their next "Regular/vanillia" high-end card won't match raw performance of the 590, it will simply have the dx11.1 functionality to brag about but be about 15% slower - and speaking of dx11.1....those are functions that pc gamer's won't see in games for at least another year anyway, if at all. (Remember dx10.1, no? Most don't.)

I don't see much in the next 6 month's that warrants an upgrade, the PC has been getting stiffed with shoddy ports of dx11 sprinkled games (See Arkham Asylum and Crysis 2) to give gamers some relevence with their upgrades....but realistically, until consoles move forward with their next gen, pc will be stuck in this limbo of "looks better than console but isn't take your breath away WOW like Crysis was 4 years ago" so I think nVidia is kind of slowing down until relevant upgrades are needed, in the mean time, they're focusing on nVision, Tegra, PS4 gpu, drivers, quadro, etc.
I have to disagree with you in regards to nVidia vs. AMD. Understand though that from the GF2 all the way up to the GTX260 and everything in between- I owned only nVidia for the longest time. Before my previous 5770 the last ATi card I owned was the Rage 128 way back when. I was strictly nVidia- GF2, GF4 MX440, GF4 Ti4200, FX5950 U, GF6800GT, GF 7600GT SLi, GF 7900GT SLi, GF 7900GTX, GF 8800GTS 640MB SLI (bought both on launch day), GF 8800GTX SLi, GF 9600GT SLi, GF GTX260 Core216, and then I decided to give AMD a go with the 5770, was given a 4870 that I rocked for a bit, and now have my 5870. So my history strongly favors nVidia and I am quite familiar with their IQ in-games, their driver stability and I have to say... I generaly disagree with you here. AMD's IQ in-game seems absolutely no different than nVidia's. Maybe if everything in the driver control panel is left at default AF maybe less than desirable with AMD but I have everything set to "High Quality" just like I did in the nVidia driver control panel and it looks no different than it did on NV hardware I've owned. AA quality seems the same... maybe slightly better because I have more AA options available to me in the CCC. Driver stability, the last crash I had was a BSOD but it was due to the beta of AMD Overdrive- that's not a driver that is an over clocking tool provided by AMD... and it is in Beta. I don't expect beta software to function perfectly. So just going off of my first hand experience you're wrong regarding AMD vs nVidia.

As far as everything else I'd say you're 100% correct. Today's hardware is so powerful it is insane. And we're not going to see any games that just have that "wow" factor to them untill the next generation of consoles is released as those will be supporting top end PC features such as tessellation and possibly even some form of physics acceleration. Those new consoles will have hardware that is leaps and bounds above the present gen consoles and so the new games targeting those consoles will have insane graphics and we'll finally see titles more worthy of our PC hardware.

But we've a bit of a wait for that unfortunately. Probably at least 2 more years imo, maybe longer. I am looking forward to it, however.
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Old 12-08-11, 11:46 AM   #69
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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I have to disagree with you in regards to nVidia vs. AMD. Understand though that from the GF2 all the way up to the GTX260 and everything in between- I owned only nVidia for the longest time. Before my previous 5770 the last ATi card I owned was the Rage 128 way back when. I was strictly nVidia- GF2, GF4 MX440, GF4 Ti4200, FX5950 U, GF6800GT, GF 7600GT SLi, GF 7900GT SLi, GF 7900GTX, GF 8800GTS 640MB SLI (bought both on launch day), GF 8800GTX SLi, GF 9600GT SLi, GF GTX260 Core216, and then I decided to give AMD a go with the 5770, was given a 4870 that I rocked for a bit, and now have my 5870. So my history strongly favors nVidia and I am quite familiar with their IQ in-games, their driver stability and I have to say... I generaly disagree with you here. AMD's IQ in-game seems absolutely no different than nVidia's. Maybe if everything in the driver control panel is left at default AF maybe less than desirable with AMD but I have everything set to "High Quality" just like I did in the nVidia driver control panel and it looks no different than it did on NV hardware I've owned. AA quality seems the same... maybe slightly better because I have more AA options available to me in the CCC. Driver stability, the last crash I had was a BSOD but it was due to the beta of AMD Overdrive- that's not a driver that is an over clocking tool provided by AMD... and it is in Beta. I don't expect beta software to function perfectly. So just going off of my first hand experience you're wrong regarding AMD vs nVidia.

As far as everything else I'd say you're 100% correct. Today's hardware is so powerful it is insane. And we're not going to see any games that just have that "wow" factor to them untill the next generation of consoles is released as those will be supporting top end PC features such as tessellation and possibly even some form of physics acceleration. Those new consoles will have hardware that is leaps and bounds above the present gen consoles and so the new games targeting those consoles will have insane graphics and we'll finally see titles more worthy of our PC hardware.

But we've a bit of a wait for that unfortunately. Probably at least 2 more years imo, maybe longer. I am looking forward to it, however.
I had pretty similar gpu history to you ATI/Nvidia wise and agree with what you said. This gamerx guy just sounds like another rollo troll clone.
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Old 12-08-11, 12:47 PM   #70
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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I had pretty similar gpu history to you ATI/Nvidia wise and agree with what you said. This gamerx guy just sounds like another rollo troll clone.
Yup. Wondering if he is Trollo...

Anywho been thoroughly pleased with the three recent AMD cards I've owned. Unless they completely screw the pooch I'll be picking up a 7 series card once they're available, and I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 12-08-11, 05:59 PM   #71
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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oh sorry excuse me for the typo, you didn't answer my question, what does scaling mean between two different processes and two different architectures?

I'm not going to say if its going to be faster or slower than the 590, I just don't see how you can come to your reasoning.
Sorry, I was already irritated by someone else, I might have been a bit of an ass.

Reasoning being, 28nm doesn't have the performance scaling to double performance. Leakage is getting worse, this is why Intel switched to 3-d gates at 22nm, performance characteristics are getting worse and worse for each shrink, for traditionial processes. For example, from 4870->5870 doubled and in some cases more than doubled resources, more than doubled transistor count, from 953 million to 2.15 billion, and increased clocks. Yet performance scaling was only generally in the 60-70% range. If even if we expect kelper to be over 6 billion transistors, as massive or more massive than fermi was(which I don't) and thus double resources, its not going to get 100% scaling. Also, at best, they can only get ~50% more bandwidth unless they go back to 512 bit bus, which makes it even bigger, maybe GTX 280 size. Even that 50% is going cost them a big chunk fo die size for a better memory controller. Reportedly the memory controller from 4870 -5870 had to double in size to handle the faster clocks, also reportedly this is the reason for fermi memory controller not being able to scale up very well beyond 4ghz, because its not beefy enough.

I don't see any way they can make kepler beat a 590 unless its in some benchmark that previously had some odd bottleneck that they've fixed, ala Heaven bench. The hard info we have is that DP is "over 1 Tflop" on kelper, which while its not specific, it kind of gives us a ballpark. Thats only a 25-30% increase. If it was closer to 1.5, or so which would be close to double performance, they probably would have bragged up "over 1.5 Tflop" right? Seems to me that they aren't going for such a huge chip this time, and are trying more for efficency per die area.

Edit: On the "two different architectures" thing, reports are kelper is mostly a die shrink of fermi without too much new. /shrug
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Old 12-08-11, 09:17 PM   #72
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Default Re: nVidia's 28nm Kepler expected to hit stores in late 2011?

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Yup. Wondering if he is Trollo...

Anywho been thoroughly pleased with the three recent AMD cards I've owned. Unless they completely screw the pooch I'll be picking up a 7 series card once they're available, and I'm looking forward to it.
AMD has been pretty rock solid since the 4xxx series.
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