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Old 12-21-11, 11:15 PM   #169
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Originally Posted by Roadhog View Post
It certainly lays the smack down on the 6970. It's a very impressive jump over there last gen cards.
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Old 12-21-11, 11:28 PM   #170
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=170866
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Old 12-22-11, 12:38 AM   #171
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Better hope the leaked slides of next gen NVIDIA high end aren't accurate NP. I won't be the only one calling these cards Beefdozer II.

Yeah sure, 20-30%faster than NVIDIA's year old GTX580 sounds like a nice jump today, but if NVIDIA trumps it in a few months by a good margin, what's the point? Two months of being top dog for $500+ each? No thank you.
I can guarentee NVs next gen will be faster. They would have to epic fail to not be faster. They are supposedly not launching for another 6 months, after all. 6 months of speed is worth more than $500 for the people with SLI/CF setups. Or if its just your time to upgrade, obviously, for now, AMD is better. You can't even admit that, just once?
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Old 12-22-11, 01:20 AM   #172
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

impressive results, even closing to the 590 but the power usage is a lot less as well.

has some trouble with nvidia games though..

good improvements over the 6970!.

this should be great for me to replace my 5870 .

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We see that the Radeon HD 7970 immediately shows muscle, that really is very impressive. The card makes 2560x1600 actually playable. And just look at 1920x1200, the last gen R6970 scores 36 FPS, whereas the new R7970 scores 61 FPS on average. That's a huge difference.
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We noticed offset in the older titles though, where the game is not really GPU bound the GTX 580 would lead marginally here and there. However where the GPU really matters in the latest game titles, that's where the Radeon HD 7970 shows it's strength, and leads with a very decent margin. Really our ultimate tests always have been Crysis 2, Metro 2022, Battlefield 2&3 and Anno 1404. In all titles the Radeon HD 7970 with an excellent margin of 20, 30 sometimes even 40% Especially in the uber-high resolutions the card marches onwards fast in performance.

Why the older titles like COD, Far Cry 2 etc slack a little is unclear, but my hint is processor utilization at driver level. Upcoming driver releases will probably make a difference there. Remember, we only had a beta driver available whereas the GTX 580 drivers have been refined for over a year now.
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Old 12-22-11, 03:07 AM   #173
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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You did post your power draw concern in a public forum where anyone can read and reply to what you said.
I do apologize if I came across as rude- not my intent.

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TBH, when I saw your post my first instinct was to post "Are you CRAZY?!" because we've discussed your finances and you have a pretty good card now in the 5870.

The only reason I didn't is because I didn't want a bunch of "Teh devil Rollo is telling a guy who wants to buy an ATi card not to!" posts.

If you really feel like you're missing something with the 5870, nab a 6950 for cheap once these parts launch in a couple weeks. At 19X10 and console optimized games $500 video cards are waste on the order of cocaine for you.

Happy Holidays Redeemed, and no offense intended. Mostly I was just shocked I agree with Roadie on the power issue.
Thanks Rollo- happy Holidays to you as well.

I dunno... read some reviews of the 7970 and I know with future drivers there will be some improvements, but I'm thinking the 7870 won't bring anything significant over my 5870. Unless the 7870 reviews really wow me I guess I'll be keeping my 5870.

Cards aren't even out yet, and the drivers in the reviews were beta. Just gotta' wait a bit after launch and see how these cards shape up. So far, I'm leaning towards keeping this 5870.
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Old 12-22-11, 06:44 AM   #174
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Originally Posted by Ninja Prime View Post
I can guarentee NVs next gen will be faster. They would have to epic fail to not be faster. They are supposedly not launching for another 6 months, after all. 6 months of speed is worth more than $500 for the people with SLI/CF setups. Or if its just your time to upgrade, obviously, for now, AMD is better. You can't even admit that, just once?
Kepler is done from a design standpoint, if it is 6 months out that is only time for a re-spin to refine process.

I'm decidedly underwhelmed by the 7970 after reading the TechPower and AnandTech reviews. The only people who really "need" it are building a three monitor computer now and just can't wait a few months for a superior product.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/28.html

15% over the year old GTX580 at 25X16? This is not really a position of strength to base your next gen on. The only way it could be worse is if they didn't beat their competitor's last gen. A factory OCd 580 would close most of that gap.

If Kepler meets a conservative 50% faster than 580, which has been a minimum for NVIDIA next gen for years, it will destroy this card.

So like I said, does a person want to spend $550-$1100 in January to get performance that is going to seem slow in 1-6 months? It's a lot of money to get smacked down, especially if Kepler launches in 3-4 months.

If Kepler was due Q3-4 I'd agree with you. However, supposedly some new NVIDIA parts are launching Q1, and Q2 at latest. I think ATi Tahiti-dozed here.
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Old 12-22-11, 07:38 AM   #175
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

Look at it this way-
Some of you have spent the last year saying "The 6970 is only 15% slower and it cheaper!".
Now you're going to say "The 7970 is a whole 15% faster and it's more expensive!"?

There's a disconnect there.
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Old 12-22-11, 08:14 AM   #176
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Look at it this way-
Some of you have spent the last year saying "The 6970 is only 15% slower and it cheaper!".
Now you're going to say "The 7970 is a whole 15% faster and it's more expensive!"?

There's a disconnect there.
580 is 15% faster than 6970 and over 40% more expensive.

7970 averages 24% faster than 580 (source) and is 10% more expensive.

That's where the disconnect lies.
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Old 12-22-11, 11:28 AM   #177
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Originally Posted by Siskods9 View Post
My own humble $0.02...

I think anyone with a 580GTX should hold off until the next round especially if you're gaming on a single display @ 1920x1200 or 1080p.

Looks like a nice upgrade for almost anyone else on older Nvidia generations or the 6xxx series from AMD and most certainly if you game on multiple displays.

Even so I think the launch prices will need to come down somewhat.

All this great hardware is fine but I think until the next gen consoles come out, for the most part high end PC GPUs will be under-utilised.
I totally agree with you.
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Old 12-22-11, 12:52 PM   #178
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

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Originally Posted by Viral View Post
580 is 15% faster than 6970 and over 40% more expensive.

7970 averages 24% faster than 580 (source) and is 10% more expensive.

That's where the disconnect lies.
We don't really have any prices on this paper launch though do we? You can't quote MSRP on an unreleased product and compare it to real world prices. Gouging almost always happens on new products, especially if supply is limited.

Even if we use the reviews that show it 20-25% faster than a GTX580, has NVIDIA ever released a next gen product that wasn't around 50% faster? (and sometimes more)

So we have a product that is between 15-25% faster than a year old product for a few months till it's real competitor comes out.

If NV's flagship launches by the end of April I'd feel pretty nauseous if I spent $1100+ on two of these pooches.
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Old 12-22-11, 01:32 PM   #179
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

I'll just copy and post what i wrote in another forum....Makes it easier really, and i'm lazy..


Quote:
I'm surprised that no one has noticed these, even though they're theoretical but says a lot:







On both raw fillrate and especially texturing speed, it pretty much murders any single GPU card, but as always only when it's needed in an actual game and at high enough game settings.


Now notice where the biggest gains are for it generally?....That's right, in triple screen eyefinity where a lot more fillrate and texturing speed actually gets used up in practical terms, and why the performance gap is smaller when using a single display compared to a GTX580...The card is basically underused and severly limited by other factors( CPU or I/O perhaps?).


That's something that will be a constant even for kepler and still using a single display and expecting a huge performance increase....Using a single display isn't enough of a load period, no matter the game being benched.

It goes on further here:

Quote:

The most impressive thing is that the HD6990 has 64 Rops and the GTX590 has no less than 96 Rops in total, and they barely pull ahead in raw fill rate....So those have to be some mighty powerfull rops in the HD7970, since there's only 32 of them..


Same goes for texturing, both dual GPU cards have a lot more texturing units between both GPU's and the single GPU HD7970 has "only" 128 of them, yet again it isn't far behind when being mesured...


Gentlemen, those are some Rops and texture units with some serious real world performance right there, and a huge leap over previous single GPU cards, and it can't really be the 384 bit bus since the GTX580 has it too, and the HD7970 has about a 25% increase in memory bandwith over the GTX580, but some results are much higher than 25%, specifically when used in eyefinity...


This is one extremely efficient GPU period, then add the overclocking ability on top and lower power use and it's a pretty impressive package overall....



And more here


Quote:

Well that for single GPU comparisons once Kepler is out sure, assuming AMD doesn't increase the size a little further in a refresh part....Cayman is a 389mm^ part while tahiti is 365mm^, and even though 24mm^ doesn't sound like much, considering it's built at 28nm that's probably a couple hundred million transistors extra...


Where things really get screwed up is in memory bandwith, as the HD7970 is using the fastest GDDR 5 memory around and a 384 bit bus this time, so how does kepler beat that by enough margin in memory bandwith constrained scenarios so that it has a performance lead in those situations....Moving to a 512 bit bus perhaps?, and getting that extra 25% memory bandwith that way, since it'll likely be using the same GDDR 5 memory too.


Keep in mind that the true high end for AMD is the dual GPU HD7990 coming out in march, wich if the single GPU does what it does, crossfire scales even better with this generation, should give Nvidia engineers quite a few headaches in making a dual Kepler card to beat that one...We don't even know when the single GPU version of kepler will show up, never mind the dual GPU one to beat the HD7990...


Edit: i think AMD pulled an HD5870 with the HD7970 on Nvidia and it'll take them the better part of 2012 to release a full lineup to beat this, but that's just me.

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Old 12-22-11, 01:35 PM   #180
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Default Re: ATi 7000 series delayed till Q1 2012

I think we need new consoles.
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