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Old 01-12-12, 07:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by K007 View Post
any legit specs on the kepler yet? or is nvidia reworking their plans? its one hell of a long wait for nvidia
Apparently you are unaware of how the design process works. Allow me to be of assistance.

The chips are designed over yeaars, NVIDIA can't "rework their plans" because AMD released a part that is a whole 16% faster than what NVIDIA was doing a year ago.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...ssFire/23.html

So basically what Kepler was a year ago is what Kepler is today. A better question might be: "Why would NVIDIA need to redesign Kepler as they have never released a part that was as small of an increase over their last gen as the 7970 turned out to be?".

Not to mention it's been rumored at several sites the 7970 was rushed to market to get some sales in the only market it can (one with no competition) and that the real ATi refresh will happen later this year. The 7970 is going to be 2012s Bulldozer, first to market, and worst to market. A part made to scam $550 out of people crazy enough to think what NVIDIA has been working on the last few years won't make 16% over the 580 look like weaksauce.
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Old 01-12-12, 09:02 AM   #26
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

If it will take this long to release the 670 then I may as well bite the bullet and get a 570 now.
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Old 01-12-12, 12:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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So basically what Kepler was a year ago is what Kepler is today. A better question might be: "Why would NVIDIA need to redesign Kepler as they have never released a part that was as small of an increase over their last gen as the 7970 turned out to be?".
Open mouth insert foot. 580 was less than that over the 480. 280 was less to 285. 8800 to 280 was about the same, and it took almost 2 years.
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Old 01-12-12, 12:48 PM   #28
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Open mouth insert foot. 580 was less than that over the 480. 280 was less to 285. 8800 to 280 was about the same, and it took almost 2 years.
Open mouth, spout nonsense, per usual. 480>580 is not a core redesign. Google "tick tock launch strategy", return and post smarter.
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Old 01-12-12, 01:25 PM   #29
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Open mouth, spout nonsense, per usual. 480>580 is not a core redesign. Google "tick tock launch strategy", return and post smarter.
"Tick tock" strategy is Intels coined term, way to fail bro.

But let me quote you again, exactly:

Quote:
as they have never released a part that was as small of an increase over their last gen as the 7970 turned out to be?
580 is a part, right? 480 was the last gen before that, right? Alrighty then, thanks for playing. Perhaps you meant architecture? Even so, why don't you take a little trip down the history files of your favorite site, techpowerup...

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N..._Fermi/32.html

GTX 285 ---> GTX 480, 28%.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P...TX_280/25.html

8800 GTX ---> GTX 280, 27%. Note that the 8800 Ultra isn't included, which would diminish this gap further.

From your own link, 6970 ---> 7970 is 23%, and those are the averages, which include low resolutions you would never use them for, if you look at the top resolution and compare, you end up with 30% for 285/480, and 28% for 6970/7970. Roughly the same. Cool story bro.

Oh, maybe you meant against the competitors product, that 16% number you like to quote...

Check the same links again, 480 was an impressive 10% faster than the 5870 that preceeded it by 7 months. Hmm, I guess 480 was a worse failure than the 7970, according to your own logic. 580 was 13% faster than the 6970, 3% worse failure than the 7970. Awesome.
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Old 01-12-12, 01:52 PM   #30
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Ninja Prime View Post
"Tick tock" strategy is Intels coined term, way to fail bro.
Looked to me like you needed education in the nature of the difference between a product refresh and a core redesign, ticktock is something you can Google that explains it. While there's no die shrink with 480>580, the method is similar: New core>refined process new core>New core. Wasn't me that was ignorant enough to imply NVIDIA would be redesigning a part they've publicly announced will launch in the first half of this year. What I said is true- the core design of Kepler was a year ago basically the same as it will be on launch day. That is why the 7970 is so feeble as well- the core design was already largely done when the 580 launched. ATi doesn't WANT to get the ass kicking they're about to receive, but they have to make the major design choices so far in advance of launch that when they get to the end of last year, about all they can do is opt for a higher projected failure rate clock speed and spend more on the fan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Prime View Post
But let me quote you again, exactly:



580 is a part, right? 480 was the last gen before that, right? Alrighty then, thanks for playing. Perhaps you meant architecture? Even so, why don't you take a little trip down the history files of your favorite site, techpowerup...

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/N..._Fermi/32.html

GTX 285 ---> GTX 480, 28%.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/P...TX_280/25.html

8800 GTX ---> GTX 280, 27%. Note that the 8800 Ultra isn't included, which would diminish this gap further.

From your own link, 6970 ---> 7970 is 23%, and those are the averages, which include low resolutions you would never use them for, if you look at the top resolution and compare, you end up with 30% for 285/480, and 28% for 6970/7970. Roughly the same. Cool story bro.
I think most of us know the difference in generations and refreshes, even if the concept escapes you.

Honey badger don't care.

Soon I'm going to be posting "LOL, told you so" and you and your friends will be back to posting "Those AMD cards are a darn good deal. They don't want to have the best GPUs! Their business model is to fail every year and sell them cheaper! Don't you know anything about successful businesses that first go bankrupt and then drag down the company foolish enough to buy their carcass?!"
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Old 01-12-12, 02:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Open mouth, spout nonsense, per usual. 480>580 is not a core redesign. Google "tick tock launch strategy", return and post smarter.
You should practice what you preach. The 7970 is considerably faster than the 6970. It is not considerably faster than the 580.

You spout off nVidia's feature-set as if everybody on the planet desires those features- that is not the case. PhysX is impleneted in very few titles, same with proper 3D surround support. Furthermore if it weren't for AMD's eyefinity nVidia would not have 3D Surround yet. Why would they? AMD was first to offer a surround form of gaming, nVidia had to follow suit.

These are all fringe features though that very few gamers actually care about. And honestly I don't think nVidia is nearly as focused on GPU development from a gaming stand-point as they used to be. The company is moving into a different direction and likely for the better. PC Gaming as we all love it, is not dying but it is not as profitable as it once was. Consoles have eaten up a great deal of that profit, those are the new premier gaming platform. Not the PC. Consoles will continue this lead imo, leaving the PC to trail behind even though from a raw power stand point it is vastly the superior platform. Consumers don't care about that. They don't care about dumping tons of money into their computer just to play a video game. They're far too concerned with other matters. More real matters. Like maybe getting out of debt, or purchasing a newer car, or improving their home, or saving for a vacation or to go back to school, etc. Having a computer that you always upgrade with rediculously expensive hardware is no longer as popular as it once was. Upgrading and tweaking your computer will never die out entirely but it is losing popularity. Especially with the performance offered by computers now days.

AMD is a business, not a charity. Same with nVidia. Need I bring up all the dirty marketing they used back in the GeForce FX days? You think they'd not do the same today if they released such a crap-tacular GPU? You think their hearts are set on what's best for their customers?

I don't even know why I bother replying to you it's just going to be some more pro-nVidia and anti-AMD garbage. You are to nVidia what Mowtin is to liberalism and Obama. Why I even bother to read your posts escapes me.
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Old 01-12-12, 02:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

My prediction , GK104 will turned out to be another turd just like G104/G114, full of flaws and it will rely on the driver sw level too much, just like any G104/G114 so far.

It will go neck and neck with 7950 or land somewhere in between 7950-7970, sometimes beat 7970 in TWIMTBP titles.


GK100, now this is where its at (true next gen), kinda like what G110 should have been from the start, but that's apparently still far far away.
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Old 01-12-12, 02:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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My prediction , GK104 will turned out to be another turd just like G104/G114, full of flaws and it will rely on the driver sw level too much, just like any G104/G114 so far.

It will go neck and neck with 7950 or land somewhere in between 7950-7970, sometimes beat 7970 in TWIMTBP titles.


GK100, now this is where its at (true next gen), kinda like what G110 should have been from the start, but that's apparently still far far away.
I don't know the codenames for keplar very well but if you're referring to the GeForce 680, it'll be considerably faster than the 7970. nVidia does have a history of nearly doubling previous generation performance. GTX 480 was almost double what the GTX 280 delivered, GTX 280 was almost double the 8800GTX, so on and so forth. When nVidia goes from one generation to the next they are pretty good about doubling the performance.

However I'm sure AMD has a refresh in the works that'll launch not too long after Kepler's top-end part (within a month or so) that'll be able to keep up. It's going to be an odd, but interesting, year.
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Old 01-12-12, 03:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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I think most of us know the difference in generations and refreshes, even if the concept escapes you.
No, I've played your little game, your way, and you still lost. 8800 --> 280 and 285 --> 480 are as major generations as you get, and they were on par with the 7970, which you are crying is not enough. Even more, compared to the figure you quote, 16%, which is against the competition, NVs last two generations fair worse than the card in question. What you don't have some witty viral marketing response already pre-cooked up for you for this one?
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Old 01-12-12, 04:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
I don't know the codenames for keplar very well but if you're referring to the GeForce 680, it'll be considerably faster than the 7970. nVidia does have a history of nearly doubling previous generation performance. GTX 480 was almost double what the GTX 280 delivered, GTX 280 was almost double the 8800GTX, so on and so forth. When nVidia goes from one generation to the next they are pretty good about doubling the performance.

However I'm sure AMD has a refresh in the works that'll launch not too long after Kepler's top-end part (within a month or so) that'll be able to keep up. It's going to be an odd, but interesting, year.
Thats not true redeemed. Before the big compute push by NV it was, but with the diversifying into compute, the gains are smaller. Starting with the 280, they only made 50-60% ish, and fermi was even worse, 40-50% often. All tech increases are slowing down. Even in terms of raw numbers, which are practically irrelevant to game performance, they didn't double. In fact the only real doubling we've seen has been on AMDs side, from R600 to R700 they more than doubled most of their chip and from R700 to Cypress they were pretty much an exact doubling of hardware. This gen from AMD and last gen have both been an analog to NVs 280 and 480, with more focus on compute than raw increases.
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Old 01-12-12, 04:12 PM   #36
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Thats not true redeemed. Before the big compute push by NV it was, but with the diversifying into compute, the gains are smaller. Starting with the 280, they only made 50-60% ish, and fermi was even worse, 40-50% often. All tech increases are slowing down. Even in terms of raw numbers, which are practically irrelevant to game performance, they didn't double. In fact the only real doubling we've seen has been on AMDs side, from R600 to R700 they more than doubled most of their chip and from R700 to Cypress they were pretty much an exact doubling of hardware. This gen from AMD and last gen have both been an analog to NVs 280 and 480, with more focus on compute than raw increases.
No I agree. But 50% is still decent. I think the big problem with the decrease in performance increase isn't so much the hardware though- it's the SW. Most games are DX9 still, built for the consoles and ported to PC. When DX9 was new, the consoles were new, there was more fierce competition between the PC as a platform, and the consoles.

I think we'll see this again once the new consoles are released but that's likely at least a year away, if not longer. So we'll see even less gains from each generation till the new consoles come out. Then, hopefully, we'll see the PC start competing once more.
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