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Old 01-17-12, 04:18 PM   #85
shadow001
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
Like I said, please, ignore my lunatic ravings. Buy 7970 tri fire asap! Your 1.5 gtx580s were never meant for 76x14, you need those 7970s right away!


Actually, it'll be a quad fire setup now since i've been looking thru all the wiring inside the PC case, and actually found a way to power 4 cards and the extra power connectors on the motherboard with just one power supply(silverstone 1500 watt strider), so i'm just waiting on the water blocks from EK( next week hopefully), and ready to roll and hopefully all 4 cards hit 1200Mhz on the cores and 1.5 Ghz(6 Ghz effective as it's GDDR5 memory), meaning each card has nearly 300 GB/sec of memory bandwith to play with....



And don't get me wrong here, the purchase of the HD7970 was never in question once the reviews were out....Add the total lack of information on NV's side regarding when they'll release their cards and what exactly comes out first, well that didn't exactly inspire confidence in the least, but that's just me.



Here's my little crazy theory....As has been the standard operating procedure for Nvidia since the GTX280 releases, their high end GPU's are going to feature a much larger transistor budget using a much bigger die, and in order to beat the HD7970 in memory bandwith constrained scenarios, they also need a 512 bit memory bus, wich is tricky to pull off using GDDR 5 running at very high clock speeds, and there's no faster memory on the market as noboby is making XDR2 from rambus, all the while still having to beat the HD7970 in raw fillrate(they redid the entire back end without adding more rops) and in GP-GPU ability for single and dual floating point math, and trying not to exceed too much the power consumption of the HD7970 under load either, wich makes it complicated to cool down and stay quiet..


Lastly, they don't need another Fermi scenario where not everything could be enabled without impacting yeilds considerably, and was only acheived on the GTX580 6 months later, and it's one thing to release a 4.3 billion transistor GPU at 28nm(AMD's choice), and another releasing a 500mm^ die at 28nm right from the start, probably packing 6 billion transistors, and a more complicated PCB(512 bit memory bus means more traces on the PCB), and as an Nvidia engineer mentioned at the time..."Designing a 3 billion transistor GPU at 40nm from the start is hard", so you can imagine one with twice as many transistors at 28nm.


So i can understand why they may be taking the baby step aproach and releasing the midrange and low end versions of kepler first, get to know the process and it's specific requirements and leaving the big boy high end version for last if it's that large and complex....Just my crazy theory though.
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Old 01-17-12, 04:49 PM   #86
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Ninja Prime View Post
Yeah that is interesting, I wonder if theres some kind of bug involved chomping up Vram...
I think someone in that thread after I posted it here, said that afterburner is doubling the vram because of XF and SLi.
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Old 01-17-12, 06:54 PM   #87
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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I think someone in that thread after I posted it here, said that afterburner is doubling the vram because of XF and SLi.
Ahh that explains it.
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Old 01-18-12, 07:43 AM   #88
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

Sorry for the off topic, but is there any reliable info on mobile chip release dates yet? I'm considering a high end DTR using a 580m soon, but don't want to buy if new parts will be released soon.

Thanks
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Old 01-18-12, 04:09 PM   #89
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

I had 5870 Crossfire. I was running 3 monitors. The performance wasn't there for what I was trying to do at the time.

When I heard nVidia was introducing Surround, I switched over to GTX480 SLI. I couldn't have been happier with the performance. However, I would constantly get this strange issue where the driver would crash at the desktop during normal non 3D use. I tried everything to figure out the issue, but never could. Despite that, I tolerated it as I mostly used my machine for gaming. Also, Surround gaming wasn't quite as well implemented as was Eyefinity. But it was good enough and got me through some good games with a good gaming experience.

When the GTX580s came out I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade. I thought better performance with less heat and noise and the potential to solve my driver crashing issue would make it worth it. My cards were from eVGA and I had hoped to use their upgrade service. Unfortunately I was 2 days past the 90 days and eVGA wouldn't budge. So I was forced to sell my GTX480s on ebay and buy the GTX580s. In all my video card purchases and sales, I had never taken such a loss in selling cards back. The only other nVidia card I had ever owned was a 6800GT, which I was able to sell for more money than I bought new over a year later (actually I did own one other, a 8800GT and was satisfied with that card). So imagine my surprise when the GTX480s sold for less than 50% of what I paid for and they were less than 4 months old.

Regardless, I had my GTX580 SLI and the performance was good. Unfortunately outside of gaming again, I continued to have issues. My machine was having the same crash issues as with the prior cards, only more frequently. I was becoming frustrating. Instead of gaming, I spent most of my time troubleshooting and throwing needless money at the problem trying to solve the issue. Most of the time I only had a single GTX580 in at any given time trying to recreate the issue to determine if one card was bad. After a long period I began to suspect one of my cards was bad and decided to RMA the card to eVGA. I had heard only good things about them and was expecting a smooth transition. Boy was I wrong. I'm not going to go into the details of why the experience was so bad, but I'll just let you know that I won't be buying any more eVGA products in the future. Thankfully if I ever return to nVidia, there are other options.

Of course after getting back my new (wasn't actually new, was a refurb card) card, the issues still plagued me. I had had enough and just wanted to rid myself of the constant dealing with issues. So I once again, decided to sell the GTX580s in favor of something else. Again, the cards were fairly new, and still I took a huge loss.

So in a years time I lost a lot of money due to the cards quickly depreciating in value. My user experience was mixed in that the gaming was pretty good and showed good performance. Also, I made use of CUDA for a lot of video encoding projects I had going on. So not all was bad. But the negative left a bad taste in my mouth. I was ready to try the only other alternative.

So I opted to go back to AMD and try the 6970 Crossfire. I knew I'd be taking a performance hit, but I was worried more that everything just worked by that point. And I must say that it did. My user experience with those cards was nothing but positive. No crashes and performance was still good enough to keep my happy. I still couldn't always have the performance I wanted in Eyefinity, but at least single screen let me turn on all the eye candy I wanted. The only caveat was of course the well known issues with drivers not being ready on game releases. That didn't make me happy, but it always did get resolved to my needs in time.

So while it's being hinted here that Kepler will probably be quicker than 7970, and I believe it probably will, I'm not sure it matters to me. I'm only looking for the better user experience, and I only need so much. I have two 7970s currently in Crossfire and the performance is great. The drivers have already soured my user experience however. But I'm hoping again that in time those issues will resolve and I'll largely forget my initial impressions with the drivers. An if the drivers become as good as they were with the 6970s, I'm not going to feel regret for not waiting for Kepler, no matter how much faster it is (easy to say when you don't yet know )
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Old 01-18-12, 04:19 PM   #90
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristogod View Post
I had 5870 Crossfire. I was running 3 monitors. The performance wasn't there for what I was trying to do at the time.

When I heard nVidia was introducing Surround, I switched over to GTX480 SLI. I couldn't have been happier with the performance. However, I would constantly get this strange issue where the driver would crash at the desktop during normal non 3D use. I tried everything to figure out the issue, but never could. Despite that, I tolerated it as I mostly used my machine for gaming. Also, Surround gaming wasn't quite as well implemented as was Eyefinity. But it was good enough and got me through some good games with a good gaming experience.

When the GTX580s came out I thought it would be a good idea to upgrade. I thought better performance with less heat and noise and the potential to solve my driver crashing issue would make it worth it. My cards were from eVGA and I had hoped to use their upgrade service. Unfortunately I was 2 days past the 90 days and eVGA wouldn't budge. So I was forced to sell my GTX480s on ebay and buy the GTX580s. In all my video card purchases and sales, I had never taken such a loss in selling cards back. The only other nVidia card I had ever owned was a 6800GT, which I was able to sell for more money than I bought new over a year later (actually I did own one other, a 8800GT and was satisfied with that card). So imagine my surprise when the GTX480s sold for less than 50% of what I paid for and they were less than 4 months old.

Regardless, I had my GTX580 SLI and the performance was good. Unfortunately outside of gaming again, I continued to have issues. My machine was having the same crash issues as with the prior cards, only more frequently. I was becoming frustrating. Instead of gaming, I spent most of my time troubleshooting and throwing needless money at the problem trying to solve the issue. Most of the time I only had a single GTX580 in at any given time trying to recreate the issue to determine if one card was bad. After a long period I began to suspect one of my cards was bad and decided to RMA the card to eVGA. I had heard only good things about them and was expecting a smooth transition. Boy was I wrong. I'm not going to go into the details of why the experience was so bad, but I'll just let you know that I won't be buying any more eVGA products in the future. Thankfully if I ever return to nVidia, there are other options.

Of course after getting back my new (wasn't actually new, was a refurb card) card, the issues still plagued me. I had had enough and just wanted to rid myself of the constant dealing with issues. So I once again, decided to sell the GTX580s in favor of something else. Again, the cards were fairly new, and still I took a huge loss.

So in a years time I lost a lot of money due to the cards quickly depreciating in value. My user experience was mixed in that the gaming was pretty good and showed good performance. Also, I made use of CUDA for a lot of video encoding projects I had going on. So not all was bad. But the negative left a bad taste in my mouth. I was ready to try the only other alternative.

So I opted to go back to AMD and try the 6970 Crossfire. I knew I'd be taking a performance hit, but I was worried more that everything just worked by that point. And I must say that it did. My user experience with those cards was nothing but positive. No crashes and performance was still good enough to keep my happy. I still couldn't always have the performance I wanted in Eyefinity, but at least single screen let me turn on all the eye candy I wanted. The only caveat was of course the well known issues with drivers not being ready on game releases. That didn't make me happy, but it always did get resolved to my needs in time.

So while it's being hinted here that Kepler will probably be quicker than 7970, and I believe it probably will, I'm not sure it matters to me. I'm only looking for the better user experience, and I only need so much. I have two 7970s currently in Crossfire and the performance is great. The drivers have already soured my user experience however. But I'm hoping again that in time those issues will resolve and I'll largely forget my initial impressions with the drivers. An if the drivers become as good as they were with the 6970s, I'm not going to feel regret for not waiting for Kepler, no matter how much faster it is (easy to say when you don't yet know )

Well i just ordered 4 HD7970's wich scale great on BF3 wich is the main game i play these days, so even considering i'll be using them with 3 displays at 7880*1440 resolution, i don't think lack of performance will be an issue at all, even more so when water cooled and running 200+ Mhz above stock speeds to boot.


Don't get me wrong here as i do believe that Nvidia has no choice but to make the high end version kepler faster, but with 4 HD7970's in quad crossfire, well it'll take a few keplers to beat that( probably 3 of them at the minimum) so in that sense is it worth waiting several more months more for them when the HD7970's are already this good to begin with?....I've already voted with my wallet..
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Old 01-19-12, 03:25 PM   #91
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

I read it....and I cant believe where it came from or is he being sarcastic ??????

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/19/n...-clear-winner/
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Old 01-19-12, 03:35 PM   #92
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

That, just oozes sarcasm. lol
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Old 01-19-12, 03:40 PM   #93
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

lol
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Old 01-19-12, 03:52 PM   #94
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by shadow001 View Post
Well i just ordered 4 HD7970's wich scale great on BF3 wich is the main game i play these days, so even considering i'll be using them with 3 displays at 7880*1440 resolution, i don't think lack of performance will be an issue at all, even more so when water cooled and running 200+ Mhz above stock speeds to boot.


Don't get me wrong here as i do believe that Nvidia has no choice but to make the high end version kepler faster, but with 4 HD7970's in quad crossfire, well it'll take a few keplers to beat that( probably 3 of them at the minimum) so in that sense is it worth waiting several more months more for them when the HD7970's are already this good to begin with?....I've already voted with my wallet..
Driver issues in many games and even more so with crossfire is what is keeping me and has kept me from in the past to going AMD/ATI, i also dont believe i should take the leap because the only game i play that strives for more power is BF3.

Sorry but i might be even tempted to not even bother with a Kepler or a ATI HD7970. I might just wait for Maxwell which will probably be released alongside the next gen consoles. Now that would make more sense because devs are effectivly creating games for PC that could run on consoles....Is it really nessesary at this point to get a huge GPU upgrade but have no games to run on it? Seriously, im a PC enthusiast too, but id sooner keep my money in my wallet than grow a bigger E-peen with a high 3D mark score that in real life means absolutly nothing... BF3 currently runs good for me with my GTX285 at med/high settings in DX10...Is it really worth 500 for that tiny bit more eye candy in just a handfull of games ? I'm guessing anyone with a brain would say no ! I also believe (apart from DX11 features) that my current GPU is capable of running every game high and sometimes with added Antialiasing.

Unless i, like you was running a multi monitor set up maybe with 3D, both of which i would suggest are over priced gimmicks but thats my opinion for what reason would i currently upgrade my GPU for ?
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Old 01-19-12, 05:22 PM   #95
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by lee63 View Post
I read it....and I cant believe where it came from or is he being sarcastic ??????

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/19/n...-clear-winner/
Like someone posted in the remarks. I think Charlie's account has been hacked. I can't see him ever posting something unbiased about Nvidia
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Old 01-19-12, 05:24 PM   #96
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Logical View Post
Driver issues in many games and even more so with crossfire is what is keeping me and has kept me from in the past to going AMD/ATI, i also dont believe i should take the leap because the only game i play that strives for more power is BF3.

Sorry but i might be even tempted to not even bother with a Kepler or a ATI HD7970. I might just wait for Maxwell which will probably be released alongside the next gen consoles. Now that would make more sense because devs are effectivly creating games for PC that could run on consoles....Is it really nessesary at this point to get a huge GPU upgrade but have no games to run on it? Seriously, im a PC enthusiast too, but id sooner keep my money in my wallet than grow a bigger E-peen with a high 3D mark score that in real life means absolutly nothing... BF3 currently runs good for me with my GTX285 at med/high settings in DX10...Is it really worth 500 for that tiny bit more eye candy in just a handfull of games ? I'm guessing anyone with a brain would say no ! I also believe (apart from DX11 features) that my current GPU is capable of running every game high and sometimes with added Antialiasing.

Unless i, like you was running a multi monitor set up maybe with 3D, both of which i would suggest are over priced gimmicks but thats my opinion for what reason would i currently upgrade my GPU for ?

It's cool if you're satisfied wich is what matters in the end no matter how much bull**** PR is fed to us to make products better than they really are, and since you're using a single display and medium/high graphics settings, a single video card is more than enough and it doesn't need to be the latest generation either....


On the Maxwell front though it might be a long wait there since it'll depend on a new fabrication process to deliver it's stated performance goals in single and dual precision floating point math, and with Kepler not out yet, you might be looking at a good 2~3 year wait until maxwell shows up.....
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