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Old 02-01-12, 11:10 PM   #217
Robs07M6S
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Viral View Post
What's so 'woa' about charlie trying to play down what he said in the previous article? He got false info from paid nv shills on a chinese forum and now he's changing the ballpark, comparing GK104 to Pitcairn (7800 series) saying it will beat it in every way. If the price is right that's still a great win for Nvidia, but it doesn't sound like it will be a threat to Tahiti...
I stopped wasting my time with rumors long ago because in my experience hardly anything ever turns out what it was hyped up to be anyway. These days I wait till the product hits and has been out for a few months before I make a move on anything and will do so once again in this case. Most likely I will hold onto my current GTX 580 for most of this year before upgrading again, by then I should have some decent choices.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:39 AM   #218
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

My opinion on the matter from another forum:


Quote:

To be honest, it's mostly what Nvidia are trying to pull off that pisses me off, as unified standards are always better for developer adoption, but it doesn't make their hardware special in any way compared to the competition, as we have:


1: Direct compute and OpenCL for creating and running programs, wich will overtake Cuda sooner or later, so it's only a matter of time.
2: Direct 3D for graphics wich is owned and controled by microsoft, so don't even think of going there.
3: We have a CPU physics API's as it is, and the original PhysX using GPU's for physics calculations went nowhere(6 games at most), and more and more CPU power becomes available as time goes on anyhow.
4: We have unified standards for 3D glasses, so proprietary standards are going to die and it's not a matter of if, but when.


So now we have Nvidia not wanting to participating in a straight performance fight, and further influencing how "good" their hardware is by adding custom code to some games( I.E. developers paid off), that pushes physics even harder and at the expense of artificially making competitors cards look worse in those titles, and also "recomending" hardware review sites evaluate these new cards with those titles to show them in the best possible light, while under other games, it's gets it ass kicked royally.



AMD could the same game by "enhancing" the shader effects in games even further to leverage all the shading power within the HD7970's, so that gamers have to make a choice between better shader effects in some games, versus better physics effects using Nvidia kepler cards....Nvidia want to play dirty then AMD can do the same in another aspect....But overall, it's still a pathetic way to make your hardware look special and i though we were beyond those days....Remember the DX9 days with SM 2.0, SM 2.0b and SM 3.0?, and all the arguing it caused for years non stop?, i do and don't want to see this happen with physics this time around...


And:

Quote:


Originally Posted by Exposed

I enjoyed Alice Madness returns with Physx. Some areas ran like a dog with lots of particles going on (ice shattering, etc..) on my 5870, but ran flawlessly and looked much better when I switched over to a GTX 570.

I care more about 3D than Physx, but anything that adds to immersion is welcomed, including increased physics. As long nothing is done artificially to hamper performance on the competition, and Nvidia sponsored games get a boost because of Physx, then I really don't see a problem. People that don't like this (like Skynet) should write letters to AMD to improve their developer support rather than harbor sour grapes.

And my reply:


Quote:

Then the next Direct X update should also add fluid based GPU physics to the standard, and make it mandatory for all vendors to support in hardware on future GPU releases, and we're back to an even ballgame between AMD and Nvidia, and developer support will come faster this way in many more titles as cards from both companies support it....Playing it their own way, and making it work only on their own cards makes sure the success is fairly limited in the number of titles that support it, just like what happened with GPU based PhysX, and i'm truly dissapointed that Nvidia haven't learned this simple lesson yet...Unified standards win and proprietary solutions lose, always
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Old 02-02-12, 01:19 AM   #219
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Interesting times ahead, im set for now though with a GTX 580 so im comfortable enough that I can sit back and wait for a while before upgrading.
welcome to the forums...
2 posts and straight in here.....

didn't rollo get banned just recently...


just saying...
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Old 02-02-12, 03:21 AM   #220
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Direct compute and OpenCL for creating and running programs, wich will overtake Cuda sooner or later, so it's only a matter of time.
Games are not taking advantage of any of it really. Cuda is obviously tailored to NV hardware, closed standard means the development is faster and professional applications don't need unified standards, because the companies buy their HW depending on their future use.

Quote:
Direct 3D for graphics wich is owned and controled by microsoft, so don't even think of going there.
Closed standard, overtook OpenGL exactly because it's controlled by one company, same way PhysX, NV 3D and Cuda is developed.

Quote:
We have a CPU physics API's as it is, and the original PhysX using GPU's for physics calculations went nowhere(6 games at most), and more and more CPU power becomes available as time goes on anyhow.
First of all, PhysX is not an API. Other physics engine are also owned by a single company, Havok only has CPU support, Bullet is not really going anywhere recently.

PhysX 3.0 has re-worked CPU optimizations, better support and more tools for developers.

Quote:
We have unified standards for 3D glasses, so proprietary standards are going to die and it's not a matter of if, but when.
We have and still, the NV version is the best.
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Old 02-02-12, 09:15 AM   #221
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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welcome to the forums..
Thank you.


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Originally Posted by K007 View Post
2 posts and straight in here.....

didn't rollo get banned just recently...


just saying...
Im not rollo.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:10 PM   #222
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by K007 View Post
welcome to the forums...
2 posts and straight in here.....

didn't rollo get banned just recently...


just saying...
I don't think that guy's Rollo. Rollo can type and spell.

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Old 02-02-12, 12:26 PM   #223
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Rollo can type and spell.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:31 PM   #224
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

Im not gonna hide my identity, A few years ago I was a member here and have gotten into my fair share of arguments on this forum and as a result have been banned before. I know many will make fun and probably wanna see me rebanned but before doing so I would like to let it be known that I am officially apologizing for my past actions and promise you I will never again behave the way that I did in the past.

In 2008 I came to know Christ as my personal Lord and savior and have since that time remained convicted of my past sins and actions and have no issue whatsoever admitting this. Some of you will likely make a joke out of this situation and not take the above words very seriously at all and if you do then just know that I will understand and not hold it against you, all that I ask is a chance to prove myself as a valuable member to this forum. In short I am a new man, a new creation in Christ Jesus.

God bless.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:53 PM   #225
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

So with all of that being said what do you guys make of the rumors regarding kepler? will it be the midrange cards that are released first?
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Old 02-02-12, 12:56 PM   #226
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Robs07M6S View Post
Im not gonna hide my identity, A few years ago I was a member here and have gotten into my fair share of arguments on this forum and as a result have been banned before. I know many will make fun and probably wanna see me rebanned but before doing so I would like to let it be known that I am officially apologizing for my past actions and promise you I will never again behave the way that I did in the past.

In 2008 I came to know Christ as my personal Lord and savior and have since that time remained convicted of my past sins and actions and have no issue whatsoever admitting this. Some of you will likely make a joke out of this situation and not take the above words very seriously at all and if you do then just know that I will understand and not hold it against you, all that I ask is a chance to prove myself as a valuable member to this forum. In short I am a new man, a new creation in Christ Jesus.

God bless.

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Old 02-02-12, 12:58 PM   #227
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Originally Posted by Vardant View Post
Games are not taking advantage of any of it really. Cuda is obviously tailored to NV hardware, closed standard means the development is faster and professional applications don't need unified standards, because the companies buy their HW depending on their future use.

Closed standard, overtook OpenGL exactly because it's controlled by one company, same way PhysX, NV 3D and Cuda is developed.

First of all, PhysX is not an API. Other physics engine are also owned by a single company, Havok only has CPU support, Bullet is not really going anywhere recently.

PhysX 3.0 has re-worked CPU optimizations, better support and more tools for developers.

We have and still, the NV version is the best.

Point is, we don't need more specialised hardware within a GPU if it means compromising it's graphics performance relative to the competition on the many games that are already released or will be released and don't use this feature period, and GPU based PhysX is present is 6 games released over a period of several years, while the CPU version is used a lot more, so that says it all really now doesn't it?


And why Direct X overtook OpenGL is precisiely because OpenGL allowed the ability to add all sorts of new features on graphics cards thru driver extensions, creating a mess of who supported exactly what for developers and their game projects, so yes unification in that area once DX10 rolled in and made everything mandatory, with no ability to add extra features was a blessing that made game developers lives easier.....And last i checked, microsoft has a lot more leverage on the market since most systems run their O/S's, with linux and the MAC/OS very far away in second and third, so Nvidia could only dream of having that kind of leverage.
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Old 02-02-12, 12:59 PM   #228
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Default Re: next gen kepler to support dx 11.1, also take a year to rollout all cards

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Thank you, apart from the grace of God none of those changes would have ever been possible.
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