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Old 01-22-12, 10:24 AM   #49
LurkerLito
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

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Originally Posted by bob saget View Post
seems like that thread is not about paypal. paypal is fairly safe for steam imo, and you do not have to enter CC info into steam itself.
Yeah it isn't about paypal but it just means it can happen with their third party supported payment processor and I am not going through that crap again at the risk of my account. So if I do buy a steam only game it'll be via retail or maybe amazon direct download or third party site like D2D. I won't buy directly from steam anymore.
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Old 01-23-12, 02:53 PM   #50
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

Here's my take on what happened.

You order game on Steam and the Credit card pre-authorization charge went through successfully. Steam then gives you the game as a pre-authorization means the funds were available and Credit card details are correct. Had pre-authorization failed, it either means card details are incorrect or no credit left on the account, in that case Steam would send you a declined notice and no game would be given, that would be then the end of that story.

Later, Steam then goes to do the actual charge, which for some reason failed at their payment processor. In general the actual charge transaction should NEVER fail as the pre-authorization was already approved previously. Steam wrongly views this as a chargeback as in most cases it should never happen. I would assume most weird abnormal at Steam are considered chargebacks due to the evidence presented here in this thread.

Steam could easily prevent this from happening, as from what I understand, (and spoken to a few credit card providers already about it when I tried to do the same thing), is that pre-authorization charges CANNOT be charge-backed period, as no money yet changed hands (due to the actual charge not yet taking place).

Most credit card companies do NOT list pre-authorization charges as they happen on their online details. Ones that do are few and far between. The only way to see that they happen is if some places offer email alerts of real-time transactions, but these almost never show the merchant and usually just the amount, or if it were a foreign transaction. With these companies, the only way to see charges is when they actually POST to your account, and for that to happen, the actual charge transaction has to take place (and not just the pre-auth). With a pre-authorization charge, if the charge transaction doesn't happen within a set time (and this time varies between institutions), the pre-auth then falls off the account. Remember that these pre-authorizations that fall off NEVER end up showing on your current or monthly statement.

Finally, since an actual charge has to happen to do a charge-back, then a failure of actually charging the card after a successful pre-authorization could never be considered a charge-back at all, which is what Valve's system is doing....

Consider the timings of what happened here, between the actual pre-auth and charge attempts, couldn't had been no more than a day... and since the actual charging has to happen to actually POST to your account, not even you could issue a charge-back that fast. Most credit card transactions after they are actually charged, take about 2 days until they POST to your statement, now you can issue the charge-back. Then after you issue your chargeback, you have to wait for the bank or card provider to send you an agreement form that you have to fill out and sign, be it online or fax, which takes another day or 2, that gives them coverage should you be lying about your charge-back in an effort to fraud the system. Then after that, will the actual credit card company BEGIN the chargeback, which can take up to a week to actually show up to Valve.

So what have we learned here, 2 days for charge to post to account, a day for them to send you a declaration form that you are being honest, a day for them to respond to you and then begin the chargeback itself, then up to a week for anything to happen. Thats assuming they work very fast, and remember weekends don't count.

So in other words, this takes so long a process, that Valve's claims of blatantly accusing you of filing a charge-back is so full of hogwash, yet you had your account flagged for suspension probably within a day of buying the game. (I honestly doubt they wait more than a day to do the actual charge, infact its probably a LOT quicker as its an instant sale, most places that ship actual goods do the charge when they finally ship the items out)
I would bet Valve has the same 'delayed' suspension as they do with VAC and cheaters, in an effort to avoid would-be thieves details on what transaction caused it.

Valve are in the wrong completely as they have all the transaction logs and times for proof.

(I know there are minor details I probably messed up on, however most of it is generally sound and proves my point)
Just a quick Google shows me that the actual charge where money finally changes hands is officially known as a the 'settlement'.

Full details here on Wikipedia of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold
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Old 03-09-12, 10:41 AM   #51
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

Oh crap, this is going to be interesting. Just tried to buy a game through Steam, but it didn't forward me to the gateway, then stopped working and yet somehow added the game to my account...

I've contacted the support immediately, so will have to see how this unfolds.
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Old 03-12-12, 10:13 AM   #52
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

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Oh crap, this is going to be interesting. Just tried to buy a game through Steam, but it didn't forward me to the gateway, then stopped working and yet somehow added the game to my account...

I've contacted the support immediately, so will have to see how this unfolds.
I've had this happen before with absolutely no issues. The transaction still went through and everything was fine.

I never read this incident before now, but it sounds like everything was one big misunderstanding. Valve is incredibly strict about their policies to the point that they are obsessively so. It almost seems like they are paranoid about most subjects, specifically cheating, hacking, and of course, game payments. If they think you might be trying to fool the system, they simply say "nope" first, then ask questions later. How can they get away with this? It's simple really: they are a privately owned company. They make the rules, and until another company blatantly knocks them off their high horse, I wouldn't expect this to change.

With the decline of PC hardware sales and the rise of services like Origin which are offering vastly superior deals on AAA titles, I have a feeling that EA will be breathing down Steam's neck before too long. That may make Valve rethink their bullish tactics when it comes to accounts control.

As for everything else, this case was clearly a freak accident. I've never heard of such a thing happening, so it's pretty safe to assume that you are probably 1 in a million on this. Also, them telling you you had to buy the game at full price would have raised a red flag right there. I would have emailed them back and said if the funds didn't go through, you would pay the $2.50 again, not full price. If they raise a stink or don't change their decision, I would kindly remind them that you didn't break their ToS in any way, and yet your account is being threatened with suspension, and you have proof of the transaction.

If they didn't budge again, I would seek legal advice from an attorney. Valve is iron-clad when it says that you don't own your account, but if you purchase a game legally and then they suspend your account due to issues beyond your control, you have a case against them at that point, and they have no defense. I guarantee that Valve would be crucified in court over that one. Just because a company has a ToS doesn't mean that it's the end-all be-all of their service with you. As far as I'm concerned, you didn't do a charge-back, and therefore are not "stealing" from them. However, they gave you the option of paying full price after the fact or having your account be revoked. That means that THEY are now stealing from you. I guarantee that almost any judge would side with you on this one.

Don't give in so easily next time.
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Old 03-12-12, 10:33 AM   #53
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

It went pretty well, they just asked me to buy the game again and cancelled the previous order. Although I've already done that by the time it took them to respond and told them through a ticket update, so it seems they don't really pay attention to these questions...

Makes me wonder, who designed the system, that gives you access to the game without even clearing with Paypal first...
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Old 03-12-12, 12:52 PM   #54
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

Glad to hear you didn't have any issues Vardant.

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Originally Posted by Madpistol View Post
...

Don't give in so easily next time.
The problem is even though I felt like I wanted to fight them over it, and I think I would have won in the end if I went through with it. For me, it just wasn't worth the time and effort to do it.

On a different note though, I can tell you that they already have lost more than that $7.50 they got from me from stuff I would have bought on steam since then. I am sure it's nothing they'll feel but at least it makes me feel better to know that.
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Old 03-12-12, 05:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

I'm still annoyed how some of the updated editions work on Steam.

I bought GTAIV for $5 in a sale.
I wanted Episodes, but when it went on sale GTAIV Complete Edition was cheaper. I couldn't buy Complete as Steam showed me already owning it as Complete had officially replaced GTAIV standalone at some point. Steam support cannot budge on price so I went elsewhere.

I didn't really blame anyone, it's probably Rockstar struggling with Steams limitations on top of regional restrictions.

I still think Steam is the number one platform and wish EA/Origin would make a deal and merge.
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Old 03-13-12, 10:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

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I'm still annoyed how some of the updated editions work on Steam.

I bought GTAIV for $5 in a sale.
I wanted Episodes, but when it went on sale GTAIV Complete Edition was cheaper. I couldn't buy Complete as Steam showed me already owning it as Complete had officially replaced GTAIV standalone at some point. Steam support cannot budge on price so I went elsewhere.

I didn't really blame anyone, it's probably Rockstar struggling with Steams limitations on top of regional restrictions.

I still think Steam is the number one platform and wish EA/Origin would make a deal and merge.
From what I understand cause I spent way too much time in their help forums, is you can contact support to remove GTAIV from your account permanently, then you could probably buy the complete edition again when it goes on sale. But you'd better double check that with steam support because the post I read was about removing a game permanently from the account and steam support will do that for you, but there was no intent to buy the game again from the poster as they hated it, so you can't be sure if maybe it's still flagged as bought in your account. It wouldn't have helped you during a sale unfortunately, since they take so long getting back to you that you'd have to do it before a sale happens.
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Old 03-13-12, 11:19 AM   #57
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Default Re: Steam support SUCKS!!!!

I haven't had any issues with Steam, but the first game I purchased on Origin, Mass Effect 3, gave me issues.

I started to install the game from the retail copy, I wanted the retail version. When I put in my key during the install, it said it was accepted and then told me to click next. It just sat there and did nothing. I couldn't click next. Nothing was going on.

I had to close the app with task manager after 10 minutes and then it said my key was already used and it wanted to download the game. Ok. Hmm. I don't want to download 10 GB right now when I have the DVD's. So I tried the install again and after some fiddling I got it to install, but it was just aggravating. I have had games install into Steam before and never had an issue.
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