Windows 8 Release Preview

[six_storm]

Originally Posted by slaWter

Did you see the D10 interview with Tim?

I'd say he sees the PC and the Post-PC era devices as two separate things - the way it should be!

MS is again too late to the party, this time to the Post-PC party. Now their trying their usual brute force approach. I hope it fails.

Do you have a link to this?

I can see it both ways, but honestly, I'd LOVE to have the same experience on all of my devices: desktop, laptop, tablet and phone. I want to play the SAME games (not watered down versions) and run desktop quality software, like Photoshop and Lightroom. iOS apps are great and they are getting better, but this is a key thing for me to really use my tablet heavily.

But we will see who comes out on top in another year or two. MS or Apple?

[nekrosoft13]

Originally Posted by six_storm

Do you have a link to this?

I can see it both ways, but honestly, I'd LOVE to have the same experience on all of my devices: desktop, laptop, tablet and phone. I want to play the SAME games (not watered down versions) and run desktop quality software, like Photoshop and Lightroom. iOS apps are great and they are getting better, but this is a key thing for me to really use my tablet heavily.

But we will see who comes out on top in another year or two. MS or Apple?

lightroom on your phone? same games on all your devices? so Max Payne 3 on your phone?

seriously? http://www.find-a-therapist.com/

[nekrosoft13]

Originally Posted by LurkerLito

I hate Win8 and metro. It's the worst thing to come up in a PC ever IMHO. It's a money grab from MS to cash into the AppStore idea. Trying to make a consistent interface between devices that are so far apart in how they are used that it breaks it's desktop GUI into an inefficient pile of junk that will at best require hacks to bring it back to normal.

First thing is it is inconsistent. No surprise there since if the enforced metro everywhere almost all of all PC programs would fail since they aren't designed for it. So you get some horrible hybridization of the desktop PC. Some apps will act like metro (MS designed ones at least), others will be desktop based as usual.

Second MS refusing to let developers make metro apps unless you go through an approval process is the worst possible thing ever. This isn't like their approved for Windows labeling they have now, this is a complete "we control everything" Apple BS that I hate. You want to make a metro desktop app even if it's free, you have to go through MS cause you can't get it any other way but through the MS store. That's a load of crap for PC systems. No side loading is going to be allowed for Metro Apps so if you wrote your own Metro based app with the FREE VS Express 2012, you can't even give it away without possibly giving out the source and having them recompile it on their metro desktop. WTF? So now we have to jailbreak our PC Desktops for unapproved metro apps.

Third Metro is a tablet interface. Desktop users need a desktop interface, not a Tablet one. The whole Metro Experience is clunky at best. Start menu might not be used much but at least it's not full screen and does not get in the way. The hot corners approach blows and slows down the whole GUI. Hover over in the lower right corner a second to pop this little menu up. You know what I do in Win 7? I go press the start menu button and it pops up the instant I press the mouse button, and I can access all the options/shutdown/programs/run instantly. Metro is complete step backwards in terms of GUI efficiency. The neat little feature of updating the "boxes" in metro apps is almost completely useless to desktop users. I run several programs at a time all the time so I am always in one of them, I am sure this is not a minority behavior of windows users that does this. Why would you need those updating metro boxes when most users will never be at the metro screen 99% of the time? It's a nice feature on a tablet because you always go back to the main screen and stay there when not actively using an app, but on a desktop the only ones that would see those updating boxes will be the people who use the start menu all the time, even then who just sits there and watches the start menu? MS already claims a majority of users don't use the start menu, so they change it to full screen with updating icons and they think people will use it more?

They made some of the internals of Win8 better, but they slowed down all the UI stuff and made the desktop more inconsistent for all desktop users. Overall it's a step in the wrong direction. It's as if a coffee shop learned how to make coffee faster and more efficiently and the only problem is they can only give it to you in cups made of polished feces. Yeah I'd like to get the coffee faster with less waiting, but you know what, I am not drinking from a cup made of feces.

amen, if this is future of windows. mac or linux here i come.

[Cylphid]

Originally Posted by nekrosoft13

lightroom on your phone? same games on all your devices? so Max Payne 3 on your phone?

seriously? http://www.find-a-therapist.com/

Some people are all excited about a "post-pc" era, where all devices can sync and share the same apps. Driven by so called visionaries....

Touch devices are a great compliment to PCs and fantastic for people who need, but don't want to carry a laptop for productivity, but this idiotic move by MS tries to force it on every device, touch enabled or not.

Like I said, Apple does it right and if this is really the future of windows, then I'll be buying macbook pros.

[Bman212121]

Originally Posted by nekrosoft13

amen, if this is future of windows. mac or linux here i come.

You're not going to switch. If you're complaining about one little feature of Windows, there is no way you'll want to use a mac. You could give linux a try, but I'll bet you'll get tired of spending more time tweaking and fixing the box than using it. I have both and the downfalls of each of those platforms is far beyond metro.

[nekrosoft13]

i will be installing hackintosh in 2-3 months, and if this still continues to be the case with windows by windows 9, then yes i will be switching

[Bman212121]

Originally Posted by nekrosoft13

i will be installing hackintosh in 2-3 months, and if this still continues to be the case with windows by windows 9, then yes i will be switching

A hackintosh will be a fun project. I've tinkered with a G3, a G5, a MBP and a Mac Pro. It's nice to see some of the alternatives and there might be things you like about it. Where I have the biggest issue with OS X when you find something you don't like about it. The workarounds are far more extravagant than a couple of registry changes to make it how you want it. Mouse doesn't work right? Need a buy a 3rd party app to fix the acceleration curve so it's even usable. Don't like the startup sound? Too bad. Use a script to mute the sound on shutdown and after startup return it to the normal volume setting. For your hackintosh you'll have to make sure you get parts that have kext files for them, because there are no "drivers" to load. The one thing that really drives me nuts is the lack of a real maximize button. You are constantly resizing windows to try to fill the screen. I quickly miss the bump to maximize or to a half screen like you can on Windows 7. After playing around with the box for a while I think you will get tired of trying to find ways to "fix" things to your liking, and go back to windows.

Probably the best feature OS X has is time machine. Windows backup is getting much closer but I haven't had time to test it out to see how well it works. If you like multiple desktops, then expose might be of interest to you. I never use them so it doesn't add anything for me. Itunes on OS X is better than it is on Windows, but if you are using WMP for media extending I don't think there is a feature like that. Sadly Firefox seems to be worse on OS X IMO, and I would rather use Safari even though I've run into issues using that on occasion.

I think you will have fun playing around with your hackintosh, but for your daily use pc it might come up a bit short.

[six_storm]

Originally Posted by nekrosoft13

lightroom on your phone? same games on all your devices? so Max Payne 3 on your phone?

seriously? http://www.find-a-therapist.com/

What's wrong with wanting that? Carrying around a tablet is much easier than a laptop obviously so why would you not want full fledged apps on them?

Since I do some photography, there are no apps to process, edit and convert RAW image files. The only app that comes close to Photoshop is Snapseed (the apps I've tested so far) and it does an alright job. A Windows 8 tablet appeals in this category because I can simply get the same apps I already have but on a tablet.

What about gaming? Again, why would you not want full fledged games on them? Yes, I agree touchscreen can be horrible for games but a keyboard/mouse option would be grand, or heck, even a controller. Zoomy makes fun of me because I want full games with controller support on my iPad lol. OnLive makes a BT controller already so it's not impossible.

Windows 8 does get one thing right: syncing your apps and preferences across all your devices so you get the same experience. I will love the day where I can surf the web on my tablet and pick up right where I left off on my MBP or Desktop PC. Same thing for games and anything else available to me. Many people like Google Chrome (you can open open tabs on another machine now) and others are getting closer but its time to unify these ideas!

[Bman212121]

Originally Posted by crainger

Window zooming on Mac is different. It will try and analyse the app or webpage you are on and maximise so there is no white or blank space. It seems clever, but I do like to have some apps full screen, just to minimise eye strain and distractions.

That's interesting. At least there is a method to the madness. I'm not so sure that it works correctly as some sites and programs will just stretch and fill the screen accordingly. Like this site when I full screen I can turn a block of text into 2 lines. It becomes a lot easier to read because you won't lose your place in the wall of text.

@Six: For apps I would love to have inssider as all of the wifi detection programs I've seen are so so. (would be equally great on a tablet) Fraps would be another obvious tool that works great on the desktop, and could be pretty useful if it would work out of the box on the phone. Openvpn, paint .net, teamspeak, vmware client.

I'm actually kind of interested in the Asus tablet that was x86 based. That could be a killer product if it was at the right price point. It would be like having a netbook that was actually powerful, yet the keyboard detached for tablet usage. On top of that having a touch screen with metro UI would make it a lot easier to use than a netbook because the touchscreen would work a lot better than the cheap touchpads do. No need to wait for a specific app to show up as you could just run all of your favorite programs.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Mobile/ASU...ra-3-Windows-8

[nekrosoft13]

Originally Posted by six_storm

What's wrong with wanting that? Carrying around a tablet is much easier than a laptop obviously so why would you not want full fledged apps on them?

Since I do some photography, there are no apps to process, edit and convert RAW image files. The only app that comes close to Photoshop is Snapseed (the apps I've tested so far) and it does an alright job. A Windows 8 tablet appeals in this category because I can simply get the same apps I already have but on a tablet.

What about gaming? Again, why would you not want full fledged games on them? Yes, I agree touchscreen can be horrible for games but a keyboard/mouse option would be grand, or heck, even a controller. Zoomy makes fun of me because I want full games with controller support on my iPad lol. OnLive makes a BT controller already so it's not impossible.

Windows 8 does get one thing right: syncing your apps and preferences across all your devices so you get the same experience. I will love the day where I can surf the web on my tablet and pick up right where I left off on my MBP or Desktop PC. Same thing for games and anything else available to me. Many people like Google Chrome (you can open open tabs on another machine now) and others are getting closer but its time to unify these ideas!

why not? when it comes to performance, desktop will always be the top, laptop behind, tablet even more behind and phone at the bottom, why the hell would anyone want the fastest machine in the house to be limited by the slowest machine in the house. Thats like people complaining right now that some PC games suck because they are direct ports of the much slower consoles games. And if i'm not mistaken you are one of those that complain about that, and yet now you want more games to suffer because of the weakest link. Performance is not the only thing that would suffer, 22 inch monitor is not big enough for lightroom, you can't fit lightroom interface on 4 inch screen, even 10 inch tablet wouldn't fit even half of the lightroom interface. almost all desktop apps can't fit well on small screens. I use autocad at work now, if you would tell some of my co-workers that you want all apps to be same on all platforms and they would have to start using autocad on touch screen they would burn you at stake. my 60,000 picture raw library in lightroom can chooke 4GHz quad core CPU, why would any sane person want to use that phone or tablet.

Performance, limited interface reality space, and now precision, photoshop, lightroom need absolutly deadly precision when adjusting sliders, picking colors, correcting NR, sharpening etc... touch screen sucks when it comes to precision, you simply can't get precise, and before you reply oh oh they can redesign the interface for touch. BS, that would mean making everything unnecessary bigger on a device that already has limited interface space.

keyboard and mouse with tablet? haha that would only make sence if you were in house sitting by a desk and have the tablet standing up or in a dock, but wait they already have this ingenious device called laptop that can do that already. Thats why there is android, ios or that metro **** for tablets, so you don't have to use a keyboard or mouse.

[Bman212121]

Originally Posted by slaWter

I guess you didn't get the memo that OS X is a "window based" system
It works differently but it's actually really great to work like that, especially for multi-tasking and multi-monitor usage. Professional software usually profits the most from it. I just wish that Apple would make it Cmd+Tab more like Windows 7's Alt+Tab with the little window previews. Apple has Exposé for that but it'd like to have an improved Cmd+Tab as well.
If you like maximized windows, you should try the new fullscreen modes. It's not only a maximized window, it's a whole new interface specifically designed for fullscreen operation. Great for smaller screens on mobile devices.
But I'm such a fan of the window based approach, I don't see the appeal of using the fullscreen mode.

About the snapping window resizing of Windows 7, there is an app for that as well

Hmm is that a new feature in Lion? I haven't loaded it on my machine yet.

[six_storm]

Originally Posted by nekrosoft13

why not? when it comes to performance, desktop will always be the top, laptop behind, tablet even more behind and phone at the bottom, why the hell would anyone want the fastest machine in the house to be limited by the slowest machine in the house. Thats like people complaining right now that some PC games suck because they are direct ports of the much slower consoles games. And if i'm not mistaken you are one of those that complain about that, and yet now you want more games to suffer because of the weakest link. Performance is not the only thing that would suffer, 22 inch monitor is not big enough for lightroom, you can't fit lightroom interface on 4 inch screen, even 10 inch tablet wouldn't fit even half of the lightroom interface. almost all desktop apps can't fit well on small screens. I use autocad at work now, if you would tell some of my co-workers that you want all apps to be same on all platforms and they would have to start using autocad on touch screen they would burn you at stake. my 60,000 picture raw library in lightroom can chooke 4GHz quad core CPU, why would any sane person want to use that phone or tablet.

Performance, limited interface reality space, and now precision, photoshop, lightroom need absolutly deadly precision when adjusting sliders, picking colors, correcting NR, sharpening etc... touch screen sucks when it comes to precision, you simply can't get precise, and before you reply oh oh they can redesign the interface for touch. BS, that would mean making everything unnecessary bigger on a device that already has limited interface space.

keyboard and mouse with tablet? haha that would only make sence if you were in house sitting by a desk and have the tablet standing up or in a dock, but wait they already have this ingenious device called laptop that can do that already. Thats why there is android, ios or that metro **** for tablets, so you don't have to use a keyboard or mouse.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. However, I'm looking more towards the future when tablets have way better hardware and are able to do heavy things like photo editing. I'm also looking at light gaming for tablets as well, not the watered down games we have now on mobile devices. I would like to try StarCraft 1 and 2 on a touchscreen at some point but we don't have that choice; maybe with a Win8 tablet one day?

I'm not a professional photographer (just a hobby) but it would be nice to make my adjustments and such on a tablet if I choose to do so. It doesn't seem that impossible to me in another couple of years.

However, I do agree that the small screen would get old after a while. I love photo and video editing on my MBP but again, it would be nice to have the option to use my tablet instead of carrying the MBP around.

Power users will always prefer to use desktops and laptops, simple users will revert to easier choices such as tablets and phones. I like to stay in the middle and use them all, but I would like more unity between all of my devices. Just my two cents.