iOS 6 Confirmed for WWDC

[zoomy942]

I use Siri constantly.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by slaWter

Can you name an exact model you've worked on?

Too many to list really.

[Maverick123w]

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

Too many to list really.

I've worked on pcs for the last 6 years and 90% of the laptops I've ever torn apart have all had integrated gfx cards. Past the ram, hdd, and disc drive, you won't be changing many of the internals on any laptop. Possibly a bad inverter or LCD cable every now and then but that's usually in a cheap pos Acer.

[six_storm]

Originally Posted by Maverick123w

I've worked on pcs for the last 6 years and 90% of the laptops I've ever torn apart have all had integrated gfx cards. Past the ram, hdd, and disc drive, you won't be changing many of the internals on any laptop. Possibly a bad inverter or LCD cable every now and then but that's usually in a cheap pos Acer.

This. When something like a display goes out on someone's laptop, I always tell them to buy a new laptop unless it's under warranty. 90% of the time it's a POS Acer so they will of course, buy another $200 POS Acer.

Most laptops we deploy at work are never upgraded; they buy them beefed up and leave them until they are retired. With computer parts and warranties being so cheap nowadays, might as well let Dell do the dirty work or just buy another laptop.

As for Apple, I would buy AppleCare from Day 1. I should buy it for my MBP but then again, it's almost 2 years old. If it broke today, I'd just buy a new one, probably an Air.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Maverick123w

I've worked on pcs for the last 6 years and 90% of the laptops I've ever torn apart have all had integrated gfx cards. Past the ram, hdd, and disc drive, you won't be changing many of the internals on any laptop. Possibly a bad inverter or LCD cable every now and then but that's usually in a cheap pos Acer.

I had a dell laptop that had compatible LCD panels made from IBM, Toshiba, and some other company whose name I can't recall. During its lifespan, I upgraded its video card from the original geforce it included to some ATI card.

Dell also mailed me a motherboard to it by mistake, which I kept just in case because they never asked for it back (though I never used it because the original motherboard never failed.) The prices for the replacement motherboards weren't bad at all for a laptop (around $150ish.)

I also upgraded the video card on somebody else's Acer laptop once.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

I had a dell laptop that had compatible LCD panels made from IBM, Toshiba, and some other company whose name I can't recall. During its lifespan, I upgraded its video card from the original geforce it included to some ATI card.

Dell also mailed me a motherboard to it by mistake, which I kept just in case because they never asked for it back (though I never used it because the original motherboard never failed.) The prices for the replacement motherboards weren't bad at all for a laptop (around $150ish.)

I also upgraded the video card on somebody else's Acer laptop once.

Two examples.

I repair OEM units 5 days a week. Every week. Just being blunt- you're very wrong. The vast majority of "video cards" are integrated to the motherboard- not upgradeable. Most OEM do not provide BIOS updates thus you are very limited regarding CPU upgrades and there's next to no documentation from the OEM as to what CPUs your laptop's particular mobo supports.

The only guaranteed parts to be upgradeable are RAM and HDD. Very rarely will you find any other parts that are upgradeable.

As to standard form factors- bull. Sure, there may be some coincidences but out side of those a mobo from a DELL laptop will not fit into an HP, or an ACER, etc. Maybe from an HP to Compaq or vice-versa, or from a Gateway to a e-Machine, etc but even then the odds are slim.

And I've been doing this for 16 years.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Two examples.

I repair OEM units 5 days a week. Every week. Just being blunt- you're very wrong. The vast majority of "video cards" are integrated to the motherboard- not upgradeable. Most OEM do not provide BIOS updates thus you are very limited regarding CPU upgrades and there's next to no documentation from the OEM as to what CPUs your laptop's particular mobo supports.

The only guaranteed parts to be upgradeable are RAM and HDD. Very rarely will you find any other parts that are upgradeable.

I did that for about 5 years as a formal job, even longer (since around 1998) as people just handed me their junk and said "fix it." I only quit recently because it's dead end and it's just the same old crap over and over again.

Also, upgrading the CPU doesn't necessitate a BIOS upgrade (especially given almost all newer laptops don't even use BIOS; in fact I'd be surprised if any of them still did. Many will say "BIOS" when they are in fact not - mine being one of them, and it is already 2 years old.)

Originally Posted by Redeemed

As to standard form factors- bull. Sure, there may be some coincidences but out side of those a mobo from a DELL laptop will not fit into an HP, or an ACER, etc. Maybe from an HP to Compaq or vice-versa, or from a Gateway to a e-Machine, etc but even then the odds are slim.

And I've been doing this for 16 years.

I didn't say anything about the motherboard, I'm referring to other parts. Intel and AMD both have specs for CPU pinouts, and you'll commonly find LCD panels that work with more than one brand or model of laptop.

Not that I'm trying to put you down, but best buy doesn't exactly permit you to make most repairs that you can possibly do on laptops. I used to be in that business, and I still know people who are in it. Hell, none of the big names in PC repair even work at an A+ level, and A+ is a joke.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

I did that for about 5 years as a formal job, even longer (since around 1998) as people just handed me their junk and said "fix it." I only quit recently because it's dead end and it's just the same old crap over and over again.

Also, upgrading the CPU doesn't necessitate a BIOS upgrade (especially given almost all newer laptops don't even use BIOS.)



I didn't say anything about the motherboard, I'm referring to other parts. Intel and AMD both have specs for CPU pinouts, and you'll commonly find LCD panels that work with more than one brand or model of laptop.

Not that I'm trying to put you down, but best buy doesn't exactly permit you to make most repairs that you can possibly do on laptops. I used to be in that business, and I still know people who are in it. Hell, none of the big names in PC repair even work at an A+ level, and A+ is a joke.

Dude- I'm not referring to what I do for Best Buy or Staples. They wont allow us to do CPU upgrades, BIOS flashing, etc. Very limited in regards to repairs.

I've taken apart a crap ton of laptops. I know first-hand that the OEM motherboards have very limited support for CPUs. Yes, many newer ones no longer utilize BIOS, same with desktops. Doesn't make them any less limited. The CPU may fit, doesn't mean it'll be recognized.

Video cards are almost never upgradeable due to them being integrated. Many new laptops utilize APUs or Intel's equivalent, if not a dedicated nVidia or AMD GPU that is soldered to the motherboard. What- you've seperated the GPU from the CPU on AMD's APU's and upgraded to a higher end GPU core? Or soldered a higher-end GPU to the motherboard?

You take a lot of pride in your education and experience- I understand and appreciate that. But I have a ton of first-hand experience here. And LCD panel is a completely different animal from a GPU or CPU. Not only that- thermal requirements vary greatly as well.

You're making modern laptops sound as though you can swap parts as easily as you could with a desktop. That is far from the case.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Dude- I'm not referring to what I do for Best Buy or Staples. They wont allow us to do CPU upgrades, BIOS flashing, etc. Very limited in regards to repairs.

I've taken apart a crap ton of laptops. I know first-hand that the OEM motherboards have very limited support for CPUs. Yes, many newer ones no longer utilize BIOS, same with desktops. Doesn't make them any less limited. The CPU may fit, doesn't mean it'll be recognized.

UEFI is a lot more flexible than BIOS. Haven't you noticed how UEFI boards don't go through POST? In fact one of the basic design principles behind intel's original EFI spec (which UEFI is derived from) is that it will run on pretty much any CPU you can throw at it because the DXE isn't dependent upon timings, rather that actually sits upon another abstraction layer that is coded for the overall CPU architecture.

Now that's not to say that jumping from say Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge would work, but upgrading to a CPU that has more cores, cache, or clock is typically going to be a lot easier than with BIOS. Hell, BIOS at its core isn't even meant to run on any architecture higher than 16-bit - doing so requires some additional programming tricks, and every time CPU's became more advanced, they had to keep adding on to that mess.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Video cards are almost never upgradeable due to them being integrated. Many new laptops utilize APUs or Intel's equivalent, if not a dedicated nVidia or AMD GPU that is soldered to the motherboard. What- you've seperated the GPU from the CPU on AMD's APU's and upgraded to a higher end GPU core? Or soldered a higher-end GPU to the motherboard?

No, although I've done many things that require that level of SMC rework.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

You take a lot of pride in your education and experience- I understand and appreciate that. But I have a ton of first-hand experience here. And LCD panel is a completely different animal from a GPU or CPU. Not only that- thermal requirements vary greatly as well.

You're making modern laptops sound as though you can swap parts as easily as you could with a desktop. That is far from the case.

You can swap parts, but I never said that it is as easy as a desktop, nor implied it.

[Redeemed]

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

UEFI is a lot more flexible than BIOS. Haven't you noticed how UEFI boards don't go through POST? In fact one of the basic design principles behind intel's original EFI spec (which UEFI is derived from) is that it will run on pretty much any CPU you can throw at it because the DXE isn't dependent upon timings, rather that actually sits upon another abstraction layer that is coded for the overall CPU architecture.

Now that's not to say that jumping from say Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge would work, but upgrading to a CPU that has more cores, cache, or clock is typically going to be a lot easier than with BIOS. Hell, BIOS at its core isn't even meant to run on any architecture higher than 16-bit - doing so requires some additional programming tricks, and every time CPU's became more advanced, they had to keep adding on to that mess.

Well aware of all of this. Also aware of how locked down OEM units are. Ever find a new laptop with all the options available in the UEFI? No, or not very often? Ever wonder why? Guess I haven't been clear. Most OEMs intentionally lock you into a specific CPU or GPU. Need a replacement? You're forced to pay handsomely for it or, more logically, purchase a new computer. That's what it boils down to ultimately. Also, less hassle for them as far as maintaining support. How often do you find the latest Forceware or Catalyst drivers on Dell's, HP's, or Gateway's site? Yes, you can upgrade CPUs on some units- never denied that. Those units are rare.

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

No, although I've done many things that require that level of SMC rework.

Yeah but I'd wager money you can't solder a GTX580M to fit in the place of a 6970M. Or going from a GTX560M to a GTX580M. Pin layout is different, power requirements are different, thermals are different. And I would wager a year's salary you've never and will never separated the GPU die from the CPU die in an APU from either AMD or Intel. There are some things a mere soldering iron just can't accomplish.

Originally Posted by Rakeesh

You can swap parts, but I never said that it is as easy as a desktop, nor implied it.

Then I stand corrected about this. That is how you were making it sound, at least how I interpreted your stance.

My point is Slawter is more correct about the average joe caring about how easy his new computer is to fix. Most folks would rather pay guys like you and I to do it for them. It's easier and more convenient. Until that changes you and I will continue to have jobs performing these repairs.

[six_storm]

My next laptop will definitely be a MacBook Air. I'm just hoping that with the next refresh, they will have a 15" model with at least 256GB of Flash Storage and better GPU. That would be an excellent notebook for me.

[Rakeesh]

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Well aware of all of this. Also aware of how locked down OEM units are. Ever find a new laptop with all the options available in the UEFI? No, or not very often? Ever wonder why? Guess I haven't been clear. Most OEMs intentionally lock you into a specific CPU or GPU. Need a replacement? You're forced to pay handsomely for it or, more logically, purchase a new computer. That's what it boils down to ultimately. Also, less hassle for them as far as maintaining support. How often do you find the latest Forceware or Catalyst drivers on Dell's, HP's, or Gateway's site? Yes, you can upgrade CPUs on some units- never denied that. Those units are rare.

You're talking about those occasional laptops that require custom drivers for the GPU to work. I've had one of those, it was made by toshiba. I returned it and picked up my current HP instead, and it works with any AMD driver, and it was cheaper than the toshiba as well.

Either that or you're just talking about the fact that OEM's don't always post the latest and greatest drivers produced by the IHV on their website. There's actually a pretty good reason for that. When it comes to *any* driver updates at all on the part of the OEM, there's always a cost associated with it, and it's not a small one either. Before they put an update out and tell their customers to use it, they have to test it extensively to make sure it is compatible with their current ecosystem.

If they just blindly put up driver updates to their website, that will end up being a tech support nightmare when something goes wrong, and the costs for that are even higher. This is why they generally do not push out software updates unless they are trying to fix something that is broken, hence you're not going to see very many driver updates on their website. However nothing will stop you from downloading the drivers direct from the IHV, just your OEM probably won't provide tech support for something they haven't tested.

If you ever work as an IT administrator, or setup any kind of technology in a business environment, one of the first things you'll learn is that updates to anything suck. While they might add features, or fix things, there's an equal chance they'll break something else. Generally if you haven't seen anything go wrong that needs fixing, then you don't need an update. The only exception would be security vulnerabilities. But then in enterprise environments, even those get delayed for testing (though there are more often than not other existing protections in place, e.g. IPS systems at the network layer, so it's usually not a big deal.)

Anyways, it has absolutely nothing to do with the OEM trying to hold you back. Updating your personal computer in your personal environment is one thing, but issuing updates to others is another.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Yeah but I'd wager money you can't solder a GTX580M to fit in the place of a 6970M. Or going from a GTX560M to a GTX580M. Pin layout is different, power requirements are different, thermals are different. And I would wager a year's salary you've never and will never separated the GPU die from the CPU die in an APU from either AMD or Intel. There are some things a mere soldering iron just can't accomplish.

Well you don't use a soldering iron for most (95%ish) of SMC rework, but yeah.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Then I stand corrected about this. That is how you were making it sound, at least how I interpreted your stance.

My point is Slawter is more correct about the average joe caring about how easy his new computer is to fix. Most folks would rather pay guys like you and I to do it for them. It's easier and more convenient.

Except you won't be doing any repairs on those. With a typical PC or Laptop, you can send it to just somebody you know (who is 9 time out of 10 better than the so called "professionals") with these mac POS computers you can't. I just read an article that nails it:

http://betanews.com/2012/06/13/apple...tent+Feed+-+BN

Basically apple is the new Compaq of the 90's. I remember back then people used to always ask me what computer they should get, and I always told them no matter what stay away from Compaq because you can't upgrade them when you need to, and when something goes wrong they're impossible to fix in any practical way.

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Until that changes you and I will continue to have jobs performing these repairs.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Though that doesn't bother me a whole lot, because I've mostly given up PC repair, I've moved on to enterprise scale and datacenter networks.