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Old 03-31-04, 02:20 AM   #25
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Default Re: Am I the only one upset with the recent trend of PC games?

So if you know so much about devleopment when is your new game coming out again?
Maybe another year. At least, that's when I hope to have most of it done.. I hope.

Because its a fixed spec, developers can hand tune the code to the hardware, and you get more out of it. With PC development, because theres soo much to cater for, you dont have the luxury of optimizing every specific card as much.
But lets say PC developers picked a fixed PC hardware setup to develop on. Such as, a 1.8ghz CPU (P4 or Athlon), 166FSB system, 256MB's or DDR333 ram, DX8 class video card, SBLive... If they could focus their development on that type of system, then theoretically, couldn't they really exploit it? And couldn't that same type of setup bring you the exact experience (speed and graphics wise) the PC developers intended and wanted? While still giving room to decrease the visuals (or increase them with AA and AF)?

Remember: even a GF3 will play almost any recent game just fine at 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution, and for a 3 year old card I'd say that's pretty impressive.
No way. There is no way I can play either FarCry and Splinter Cell: PT at 1024x768, even on the low graphic settings. Hell, even 800x600 is pushing it...
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Old 03-31-04, 02:39 AM   #26
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Default Re: Am I the only one upset with the recent trend of PC games?

BTW Nutty, when you've coded games for consoles have you noticed any big performance improvements you were able to code because it was a fixed platform? I mean like certain effects practically being "free" on a console when on the PC it would've been hard to impliment and a drain on resources? Oh, and you never did answer the question I asked about the Gamecube's shaders in that Serious Sam 2 thread
But in any case, congradulations on your 1000th post
I've replied in that thread.

I'm not an engine coder (yet), so I cant really answer that. GC does have some nice native cpu instructions for doing int to float conversions really fast, which is nice. These aren't exactly quick on PC. PS2 has loads of little cpu's you can program to do stuff. PS2's power comes from getting all the vector units, and cpu's working in parallel. Parallel processing is what makes gpu's soo much faster at graphics than cpu's.

Xbox is basically just a modified Gf3 imo, but because its fixed spec alot of developers bypass the api, and write directly to the metal in some instances I've heard. You just cant really do this on the pc. You have to go through the API->Driver->Hardware route.
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Old 03-31-04, 12:21 PM   #27
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Default Re: Am I the only one upset with the recent trend of PC games?

Originally Posted by SuLinUX
Yer, PC has bottlenecks everywhere, bus, AGP, driver, ect... consoles have non of that, like you say the hardware is fix with no bottlenecks.
A bottleneck is just the slowest component in the path needed to go from data on the disc/cartridge/drive to an image on the screen. Every console has a bottleneck somewhere... but the difference between a console and a PC is that all the coders know exactly how fast each seperate component of those console is and exactly what it can do.
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Old 03-31-04, 12:42 PM   #28
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Default Re: Am I the only one upset with the recent trend of PC games?

I don't reckon the latest games are a jump too soon; I've had my current rig for 6 months or more, and Far Cry is the first game to really need it.

Having said that I'm slowly getting tempted by NV40
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Old 04-01-04, 10:21 AM   #29
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Default Re: Am I the only one upset with the recent trend of PC games?

Originally Posted by NickSpolec
1) I did used to have a 9500 NP (256bit) that softmodded. Key word is DID.
Sorry to hear that.

Originally Posted by NickSpolec
2) It's a mobile processor in a desktop system. I was wishing for 2.7ghz on air out (and a max volts of 1.850) of it, but I was only really hoping to get 2.5ghz, which I did. If I had water cooling or a refridge setup, I'm sure I could get to 2.7ghz using 1.950 volts or higher. But there is no way I will go past 1.850 on air cooling (though my idle is only around 28 - 32c, and load around 36 to 42c).
Oh, ok. Cool - I have been out of it since I graduated college. I had no idea that the mobiles were good overclockers. Good choice.

Originally Posted by NickSpolec
I guess it really comes down to PC developer LAZINESS. It's as if they are unwilling to put in the LEAST amount of effort exploiting existing hardware to get good frames/good visuals, and instead simply want the next best thing because it means that much less work to get those same good frames/good visuals. Why spend any time trying to optimize a game for lasts generation's cards when the new generation is twice as powerful, and doesn't need much optimization at all to get the same level of performance?
I see what you're getting at, but I don't think that it's laziness, really. I think it's a combination of higher develoment cycles and the direction that graphics hardware is going.

Back in the TNT days, the difference between one graphics card and another was, basically, how fast it could pump polygons. Cards at the time were very general tools (or at least more general than current cards). Developers could write a game that did called for some many polygons on screen at one time, and the only limiting factor was speed. Therefore, newer games were playable on graphics cards that were a generation or two behind, just at lower resolutions - and beside the lower resolution, they looked the same.

But after the introduction of vertex and pixel shaders, we start having another factor to consider, not just speed. And since VS and PS that are written for DX9 only work on a DX9 part, developers have to write DX8 and DX7 replacements - which, because DX9 gives them so many more tools, don't look near as good. Instead of just having a speed difference, there's a visual quality difference too (and since the replacement shaders are running on hardware that isn't really ready for large amounts of shaders to begin with, we get slowdown). So it's more the nature of the beast, not lack of skill or inherent laziness.
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