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Old 08-22-04, 11:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

For all of those people that want high res textures in Doom 3, download the Parallax Mapping Mod v1.0 from Fileplanet. It adds Displacement Mapping into Doom 3, so that all of the textures are suddenly Hi Res. It also looks freakin sweet.

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Old 08-23-04, 04:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Sorry this is false. Utterly completely false.

What you are looking at is what valve admitted a long. That they started off with that foundation, reached a point. Had to stop with that foundation and start a whole new rendering engine. What you were looking at was part of the HL2 cabal source.

All reusable code is always reused in engines

But its ok believe what you want =)
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Old 08-23-04, 04:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

... not trying to be out of line or anything, but when i saw the first counterstrike source screenshots, i thought it was from the original counterstrike. i immediately thought "what's so special about this screenshot?" then about an hour later, i realized it was the new version of counterstrike, lol. it wasn't intentional at all, i just realized it being so bland and uninteresting to the eye that i seriously did not notice it was the new counterstrike.

tbh, i have not been very impressed with hl2 or doom3, hopefully theif or unreal3 will take us away on an eye candy path like the oh-so-sexy unreal tournament game did. i can remember when first playing unreal tournament, there was nothing visual about the game that i didn't like. not like doom where i immediately noticed low poly counts and crappy textures; for the time i thought the game was perfect as far as pleasing to the eye goes. this continued through ut2003 and ut2004 as well, they make stuff that looks so good yet runs so well. i don't like the actual gameplay of the ut series (except onslaught, which owns), but the graphics are the best of all of its competitors. not to mention it usually runs better than them too. if only they had good ogl support =\
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Old 08-23-04, 07:28 AM   #28
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

I absolutely agree about UT. When I first saw it it looked far better than quake3 and ran very smooth also. I suppose when Unreal3 engine comes out it will own doom3 too but the prospects are it will not happen for 2 years to come. So for the moment doom3 is the most advanced and good looking game I've seen and judgeing from screenshots of forthcoming CS and HL2 it will continue to be the leader for some time.
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Old 08-23-04, 10:21 AM   #29
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor1
The new revolutionary engines are Stalker and Crytek, this is why both these engine can do indoors equally well as Source and Doom 3, but when it comes to outdoor rendering they are unmatched. They don't use BSP trees. The base engine for terrain rendering uses either octtrees or polysoups. By using these methods the programming of geometric complexities increase quite a bit.
Don't forget Croteam's Serious Engine 2. While not revolutionary I think its real-time tools make it one heck of an engine.
Quote:
It will be possible to drag and drop enemies while watching the game running, change architecture, save the player from dying... basically acting as God... all that while the game is running in real-time!
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Old 08-23-04, 10:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Its funny how people compared the HL2 engine against Doom 3. Its nowhere near as advanced. I've said it many times and nobody listens...

The HL2 engine is a hack the QUAKE ONE engine.

Its just a rebuild of the original Half-life engine (which was based off Quake 1, NOT Quake 2), and it has the havoc physics engine taped onto the side. Download the leaked source and see for yourself. First line in the code is "#include glquake.h".

The only reason the HL2 screenies look so good is because they can use higher resolution textures and poly counts with todays cards. The HL2 screens appear to use a lot of real world photos for the buildings etc and they do look very sweet, but the engine itself is nothing special. This is why we are seeing 100+ FPS. And yeah, ATI cards are faster than nVidia... but if I get 100 FPS instead of 120 FPS I don't care. I won't notice the difference, unlike with Doom 3 where I would be getting 25 FPS instead of 45 FPS if I got a x800 Pro instead of a 6800 GT. At lower frame rates the performance difference is much more important.

The HL2 engine will still be a good base for mods because of its lower requirements. The game may still be good because of the story and level design. It will look good because of good modelling and excellent texturing. But the engine itself is nothing special.
Did u ever look @ the bink-movies? Ton's of shaders going on..
Reflections in the floors etc .etc. All those things didn't even exists in Q1
Subtle things all over the place... Q1 coz of an include in a leaked beta *sigh*
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Old 08-24-04, 01:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Let me just say, I despise emoticons. I'm going to edit my IE so it won't display pictures the size of an emoticon.
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Old 08-24-04, 09:16 AM   #32
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchMeteor
Did u ever look @ the bink-movies? Ton's of shaders going on..
Reflections in the floors etc .etc. All those things didn't even exists in Q1
Subtle things all over the place... Q1 coz of an include in a leaked beta *sigh*
No, the include was just an obvious example for me to use. There is a lot of Id's old stuff in there. Worldcraft dirs are even in the source.

Taken from another forum:

#ifndef GLQUAKE_H
#define GLQUAKE_H
#pragma once

#pragma warning(disable : 4244) // MIPS
#pragma warning(disable : 4136) // X86
#pragma warning(disable : 4051) // ALPHA

#include "basetypes.h"
#include "quakedef.h"
#include "render.h"
#include "client.h"
#include "materialsystem/imaterialvar.h"
#include "bspfile.h"

Also from glquake.h:

extern ConVar r_norefresh;
extern ConVar r_speeds;
extern ConVar r_speedsquiet;
extern ConVar r_lightmapcolorscale;
extern ConVar r_decals;
extern ConVar mp_decals;
extern ConVar r_lightmap;
extern ConVar r_lightstyle;
extern ConVar r_dynamic;

Anything look familiar?

The point is you guys are pimping the HL2 engine like its some revolutionary new engine. Its not. Its just an incremental improvement of their original HL, which was based on the Quake 1 engine. Doom 3 is no doubt incremental also, but its a more substantial change since its doing lighting in real time rather than using pre-generated lightmaps which is what HL2 is still doing.
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Old 08-24-04, 09:52 AM   #33
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

Real Time lighting is great and all but it just doesn't work for most games today. Games with large outdoor areas (FarCry, HL2) have to make this comprimise in order to keep framerates up.

Also, pretty much every game has the same underlying technology. This is because the technology is established and it works; there's no reason to change it. Unless someone brings a voxel engine or some such out of left field then pretty much every game for the next five years are going to be "incremental upgrades" over current technology. But really, what's so wrong with that? Even if HL2 is a mod of quake 1, it still looks nice and probably plays even better.
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Old 08-24-04, 10:55 AM   #34
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Default Re: Valve decide what fps is OK

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. It does look nice and im sure it will be playable, even on a GF 4. The only thing I disagree with is the belief thats it a revolutionary new engine that we have to buy the latest greatest ATI card for.
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