Go Back   nV News Forums > Software Forums > Gaming Central

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-24-04, 11:56 PM   #73
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

To Woodelf:

The Xbox was NEVER the equal statistically of PCs when it came out. It had a hell of a lot less memory and CPU power. The reason consoles seem to exhibit more power (EDIT: Than they actually have) is two-fold:
1. They don't have a huge OS running in the background. Meaning, all the memory is available to the game, and the CPU's context shifting is far less likely to ever bottlenck you.
EDIT: One of my flatmates just called me a goit for posting this bit, because (as he says, correctly I might add) the Xbox runs a modified version of the Win2k Kernel. It IS true that all systems of any kind DO need to run a Kernel, but the nice thing about a console is that that is the ONLY other major thing running. In reality, when you're running a game the Windows process scheduler should have enough sense to not let anything else interrupt it, but that's not always the case. Because games tend to be a heavyweight process, anything else interrupting will probably result in a complete context shift... which is pretty quick in human terms, but pretty slow in CPU terms. Just thought I should qualify that statement, as it's a little misleading when I really think about it.
2. Developers really really work to get every little bit of performance of Console hardware, and can develop for a specific hardware set. Makes things a LOT easier.

As for why would you want an R500, I'd think the answer is pretty clear - it's going to be a lot faster than an NV40 or R420. I'd imagine the XBox2 will either come out just before or just after the NV50/R520... so, truth be known th Xbox 2 will probably at least seem more powerful than its PC contemporaries when it comes out.

Oh, that and it's going to be running an IBM custom designed tri-core Power-PC chip. I mean, ****, that thing is going to be FAST.
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.

Last edited by Subtestube; 09-25-04 at 07:52 AM.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 07:02 AM   #74
CaptNKILL
CUBE
 
CaptNKILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 18,844
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

I hope they put more than 256Mb of RAM on the XBox 2... I dont think texture resolutions would be dumbed down as much on console ports if they had plenty of memory. How Doom 3 is going to run well on an XBox is beyond me... 64Mb total memory? Gah...
__________________
---- Primary Rig ---- CoolerMaster 690 II Advance - Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 4.0Ghz + Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
6GB DDR2 @ 942Mhz 5-5-5-20 1.9v (2x1Gb Wintec AMPX PC2-8500 & 2x2Gb G.Skill PC2-6400) - EVGA Geforce GTX 470 @ 750/1500/1850 (1.050v)
Sparkle Geforce GTS 250 1Gb Low-Profile (Physx) - Crucial RealSSD C300 64Gb SSD - Seagate 7200.12 500Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA
ASUS VW266H 25.5" LCD - OCZ GameXStream 700W PSU - ASUS Xonar DX - Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround - Windows 7 Professional x64
---- HTPC ---- Asus M3A78-EM 780G - AMD Athlon X2 5050e 45W @ 2.6Ghz - 2x2GB Kingston PC2-6400 DDR2 - Sparkle 350W PSU
Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 250Gb SATA - Athenatech A100BB.350 MicroATX Desktop - Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic
CaptNKILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 09:47 AM   #75
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtestube
To Woodelf:

The Xbox was NEVER the equal statistically of PCs when it came out. It had a hell of a lot less memory and CPU power. The reason consoles seem to exhibit more power (EDIT: Than they actually have) is two-fold:
1. They don't have a huge OS running in the background. Meaning, all the memory is available to the game, and the CPU's context shifting is far less likely to ever bottlenck you.
2. Developers really really work to get every little bit of performance of Console hardware, and can develop for a specific hardware set. Makes things a LOT easier.
There's another one:
3.The lower resolution of 480i/p requires less memory than HD. This allows the developers to add more eye candy at a playable framerate, at the cost of some jaggies. It allows the NV chip to show off it's true colors, but at a low resolution.
My point was that many people without GF3's that had crappy 15"-17" montiors were expected to convert to the next gen graphics in the Xbox, but didn't due to either PC upgrade/new or PS2.
The PC target audience at that time didn't have GF3's in their computers with 32MB's on card and 256 System ram.
They were from the big PC buying frenzy and had P166MHZ MMX- 500MHZ PC's that had had touble playing halflife. First time PC buyers back then wanted more, because their oem PC's weren't set up for gaming, just gaming compatable. The Xbox would allow them next gen graphics with out a new PC purchase.

They could have had more support for HDTV at that time, but now they are trying to compete with today's PC graphics and can do so (or attempt, deus ex 2 anyone?) on low quality TV screens.
This is kind of sad for good developers who are stuck writing for PS2/Xbox hardware.
Though now more people have HDTV's than ever, which could help Xbox 2 sales (if implemented in all games). Xbox2 need's to be out now (IMHO) or they will be facing that same as what were seeing with valve's source engine vs doom 3 engine. If PC graphics are allowed to exceed Xbox 2 graphics, then we'll be seeing thing's get turned down when porting to Xbox2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtestube
As for why would you want an R500, I'd think the answer is pretty clear - it's going to be a lot faster than an NV40 or R420. I'd imagine the XBox2 will either come out just before or just after the NV50/R520... so, truth be known th Xbox 2 will probably at least seem more powerful than its PC contemporaries when it comes out.

Oh, that and it's going to be running an IBM custom designed tri-core Power-PC chip. I mean, ****, that thing is going to be FAST.
I was referring to the vid card's that we'll be using, such as "(2x SLI 6800 gt's)" (or better) when the Xbox2 finally comes out next year, that at that time when we'll allready have next gen graphics. We don't know when Xbox 2 will be released, but we do know the theoretical specs. We don't know what will be out for PC's at that time. If the Xbox2 were released right now, I might agree with you (if it can beat out SLI). According to everything I've read, say's we won't see Xbox2 untill 4th qtr 2005. That would have to mean that we would still have 6800's at that time, which is extremely unlikely. R420 is excluded from this post (due to lack of sm3.0), which was what my response to you was about.

http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/...Out-Part-II/p4

I can't say what kind of performance differences the Intel chip's are going to make in a true gaming sense. but I've seen it said time and time again, when ever a new GPU/VPU comes out, the claim "cpu scalability will bring massive result's" pitch. As if to say, buy our card cause tomorrow when you upgrade your cpu it will blow you away. when the perf increase is never as much as what you'd get with a next gen card. So I'm not going to put any money on the Xbox2's need for the 3 Intel chip's as hyped.


IMO:
As of right now, the xbox, in term's of porting todays PC games, is rediculously out dated. This is comming from a big screen player though (i don't like 480p). Whether developers implement all features of the Xbox2 as a given (I don't know), but could be influenced to their ability, enthusiasm, need for quick cash, lazyness. As I said, we can expect good thing's from bethesda.

http://www.xbreporter.com/xbox_syste...ifications.php
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 01:21 PM   #76
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtestube
To Woodelf:
As for why would you want an R500, I'd think the answer is pretty clear - it's going to be a lot faster than an NV40 or R420. I'd imagine the XBox2 will either come out just before or just after the NV50/R520... so, truth be known th Xbox 2 will probably at least seem more powerful than its PC contemporaries when it comes out.

Oh, that and it's going to be running an IBM custom designed tri-core Power-PC chip. I mean, ****, that thing is going to be FAST.



Quote:
Originally Posted by http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/858/The-Xbox-2-Inside-and-Out-Part-I/p3/

"The Xbox 2 VPU is supposed to have a real peak pixel fill rate of 4 gigapixels per second, which doesn’t sound too impressive either considering today’s graphic chip specs. We’ll have to wait for the official announcement regarding this matter to make further conclusions."
http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/...Out-Part-I/p3/

But doesn't the 6800Ultra have a fill rate of 6.4 gigapixels?.
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 04:28 PM   #77
Ninja Prime
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,263
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodelf
http://editorials.teamxbox.com/xbox/...Out-Part-I/p3/

But doesn't the 6800Ultra have a fill rate of 6.4 gigapixels?.
Too bad you don't know that fillrate really doesn't matter on a console...
Ninja Prime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 04:36 PM   #78
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Prime
Too bad you don't know that fillrate really doesn't matter on a console...
Why do you say that?. And how is the way an xbox uses fill rate different from your PC?.
Because AFAIK it takes quite a bit of fill rate to draw screens on my Sony 60" grand wega at 1920x1080. So what doesn't matter about it?.
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 05:15 PM   #79
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Tell me this isn't going to be fill rate intensive.


Here is a video example of the expeced visuals for Xbox2. http://darksector.com/

"Digital Extremes has released a teaser-trailer for their upcoming game "Dark Sector." The footage shown in that teaser is real-time gameplay based on Digital Extreme's projected specs for the Xbox 2 and PS3. Company spokesperson Meridith Braun won't say which emulated console the teaser is running on, only that it represents "a next generation platform."
http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/07/comm...column_gaming/

Also:
"The graphic chip will contain not only a graphics rendering core but up embedded DRAM acting as a frame buffer that is big enough to handle an image that is 480i and can be 4 times over sampled and double buffered. Yeah, we all remember Bitboys but this time you can bet this is for real. This solution will finally make possible HDTV visuals with full screen Anti-Aliasing on."

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/5388/X...Leaked-Update-
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-04, 11:13 PM   #80
Subtestube
Anisymbolic
 
Subtestube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,365
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Well, I'll bend to your superior knowledge of the subject (I know next to nothing about HDTV and haven't read nearly as much about the consoles themselves). Still.. I find it hard to believe that a next gen GPU will have a lower fillrate than a current one. Still.. does HDTV still have the whole 30 frames colour/30 frames black of standard TV? If it does, the GPU only actually needs to render 30 fps to max out the media... which would certainly lower how much work it needs to do. Still, I guess at the moment it's all hype anyhow, and we'll see how it performs when it arrives. I still stand by the points about a console needing to run next to nothing other than the kernel and the game you're playing, and the fact that devs have a known hardware base to really work at.
__________________
Dr Possible: Core 2 Duo E6400 on Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4. Galaxy GeForce 7600GT. 2GB Corsair XMS 2 DDR2-6400 RAM (CL5). ATi Theatre 550 Pro. Windows XP MCE. All stored in Piano black Antec Sonata II, with a broken door.

Mobile: ASUS M2400N, Pentium M 1.5 GHz. 512 MB DDR RAM. Intel EXTREME graphics. Windows XP SP 2 / Ubuntu 5.10.

Ridiculous DOES not have an 'e' in it. It comes from "ridicule" and has less than nothing to do with the colour red.
Subtestube is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 09-26-04, 03:34 AM   #81
msxyz
Hybrid Microprocessor
 
msxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Milan (Italy)
Posts: 2,050
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Ahem... BACK on TOPIC Did anyone see the exclusive images posted on GI site?

EDIT: Nevermind. I've found them... They look AMAZING! :
Since it's leaked material and GI still has an exclusive, I won't put a link to the site hosting them here on the forums. PM me if you want to know it.
__________________
Powered by:
Pentium Dual E2180 (2GHz, 200MHz FSB)
Abit L95C (The one and only mATX with dual PCIe slots!) + 2x1 Geil Black Dragon PC6400
XFX 9600GSO 384MB
Little freak wonder

Last edited by msxyz; 09-26-04 at 06:08 AM.
msxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-04, 08:26 AM   #82
Woodelf
I should be gaming.
 
Woodelf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ferelden
Posts: 908
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

Quote:
Originally Posted by msxyz
Ahem... BACK on TOPIC Did anyone see the exclusive images posted on GI site?

EDIT: Nevermind. I've found them... They look AMAZING! :
Since it's leaked material and GI still has an exclusive, I won't put a link to the site hosting them here on the forums. PM me if you want to know it.
Sorry about that. I tried to include something about tes 4 in each post to keep it some what relevent.
As for the sceen's, I tried to, but I'm no longer a subscriber and it wouldn't allow me to view them.
__________________
i7920 @ 4.0 DO - Gigabyte ud4p - g.skill trident 6x2 ddr3 2000 @1600 7.7.7.18.1 - Cogage true spirit/sythe kaze 2000 - 2x Raid "0" WD 500GB (black) - xfi fatal1ty pro - Asus 5970 900/1200 - Corsair 1000HX - Samsung px2370
Woodelf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-04, 01:51 PM   #83
CaptNKILL
CUBE
 
CaptNKILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 18,844
Default Re: The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

For those that havent seen it yet, these are the screens that GI put on their site for magazine subscribers to see:
http://www.geocities.com/mrdiabolikal/es4o.html

They are mostly the same pictures from the magazine but they are clearer and more detailed... there are a couple extras though.
__________________
---- Primary Rig ---- CoolerMaster 690 II Advance - Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 4.0Ghz + Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme
6GB DDR2 @ 942Mhz 5-5-5-20 1.9v (2x1Gb Wintec AMPX PC2-8500 & 2x2Gb G.Skill PC2-6400) - EVGA Geforce GTX 470 @ 750/1500/1850 (1.050v)
Sparkle Geforce GTS 250 1Gb Low-Profile (Physx) - Crucial RealSSD C300 64Gb SSD - Seagate 7200.12 500Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA
ASUS VW266H 25.5" LCD - OCZ GameXStream 700W PSU - ASUS Xonar DX - Logitech Z-5500 5.1 Surround - Windows 7 Professional x64
---- HTPC ---- Asus M3A78-EM 780G - AMD Athlon X2 5050e 45W @ 2.6Ghz - 2x2GB Kingston PC2-6400 DDR2 - Sparkle 350W PSU
Seagate 7200.10 320Gb SATA - Seagate 7200.10 250Gb SATA - Athenatech A100BB.350 MicroATX Desktop - Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic
CaptNKILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Elder Scrolls Online impressions News Archived News Items 0 06-05-12 01:20 PM
Everything we know (and don't know) about dungeons in Elder Scrolls Online News Archived News Items 1 05-30-12 07:05 PM
How Skyrim and Oblivion influenced The Elder Scrolls Online News Archived News Items 0 05-25-12 12:20 PM
Why Elder Scrolls Online Needs To Be A Sandbox News Archived News Items 0 05-09-12 01:10 PM
The Elder Scrolls Online Teases Us Ouroborosly News Archived News Items 0 05-04-12 11:00 AM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2014, nV News.