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Old 09-18-05, 10:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick
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The word you're looking for is "scripted" not "pre-rendered".
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Old 09-19-05, 12:26 AM   #38
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

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Originally Posted by slick
The funny part about that is that there is an EXTREMELY good chance that MGS4 will be making it's way to the 360. Kojima did not sign any exlusivity contracts this go around.
does he really have to?

did you even watch the full length video? he had words cell processor and mgs4 winning the "console war" all over it.

if it comes to the xbox360 it will be years from now which it will no longer matter. and kojima wont be the one whos porting it because this will be his last mgs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick
Go back a page and read my post. There is no proof at all that this is real footage.
How about you go back and read some of mine, i provided links which all give proof that the video kojima displayed was indeed real. not real gameplay, which kojima has never shown at the debut of a mgs (so i dont know why you would expect this now), but a real-time engine showing. this is good enough for me, as i said before when msg2 was shown in a cinematic way everyone beleived it couldnt be done, sure enough the final game came and did not disappoint. (besides raiden that is lol)

get your mind out of the gutter. that last post of yours where you quoted me, i wasnt even talking to you, i was talking to Sorrow.
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Old 09-19-05, 04:11 AM   #39
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick
Go back a page and read my post. There is no proof at all that this is real footage. If this is what could be done, why didn't they have a guy out on stage showing it off real-time? This was obviously a pre-rendered video. There is no doubt it will be able to re-create graphics like that, but the video itself was pre-rendered. Just look at the animations. There are WAY to many specific animations for that to be real. There is a specific animation for every last thing he does in that video, every last wall he leans up against, every last object he touches. There is no way that it was in-game.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09...s_6133820.html

Now please shush... never dout Kojima.
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Old 09-19-05, 04:34 AM   #40
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09...s_6133820.html

Now please shush... never dout Kojima.
I was going to post this myself but I decided I wanted one of you to do the honors.

Oh and I almost forgot...
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Old 09-19-05, 08:17 AM   #41
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick
You are dying to believe that aren't you? Has anyone varified that movie to be real-time in-game footage? I didn't think so,.

ANd I disagree..


http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09...s_6133820.html

Quote:
TOKYO--When it debuted at the 2005 Tokyo Game Show a few days ago, the Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer got a similar reception to the Killzone trailer at E3--almost universal awe. But when the initial shock wore off, the same question was raised by skeptics--was it a real-time demonstration of the PlayStation 3's in-game graphical power or a prerendered trailer? To dispel any doubt, series director Hideo Kojima and artist Yoji Shinkawa held a stage event at Konami's TGS booth to prove that the visuals are indeed running in real time on the next-generation console.

"This trailer isn't a CG or something that we've rendered on a high-spec PC," said Kojima " This is the real thing on a PlayStation 3 development kit."


After showing the full eight-minute MGS4 trailer, director Kojima and an assistant began a real-time demonstration on a PS3 development kit featuring scenes from the preview. The first sequence was from early in the trailer, when Snake peeked through the broken walls of a building. There, he paused the game and moved the camera around to show that the real-time rendering was authentic. "He's a bit pigeon-toed because he's being cautious," joked Kojima, while the camera rotated to show Snake's feet, which weren't visible in the original trailer.
and about the lighting in the game..

Quote:
Kojima's development team has been concentrating on MGS4's shadow and lighting effects. "We can change the shadows in MGS4 in real time. We can also place shadows on Snake himself, using [the PS3's] self-shadow effects. This is the first time that we've been able to do it in the series. We always wanted to use self-shadowing effects, and it's finally become a reality," said Kojima. "We're using high-dynamic range rendering this time and creating extremely natural visuals as a result," added Kojima's assistant.

It was the real thing dude .. yes it looks so good that people find hard to believe that its real but it was . .What you saw in the MGS4 video is what you will see in the game. Whether the final game will be heavily scripted or not.. its the way you will play the game.

In fact Kojima told it will be better from here in the final game ,since they arent working with the final console .. but beta development PS3 kits with much lower performance that the final console will have. the demo was 100% scripted (pre-controlled) but realtime sequences.. because a couple of months with the development kits is too short time to create a playable demo even less a game with something they have never worked before. Epic in the other hand 4 years in development with their GOW game. And Microsoft made the Xbox360 development very easy to port PC games to their console.

The skeptics argument now is that yes it was realtime but it was scripted. But this is no diferent with almost any other PC game that begins it development ,and their developers show scripted trailers of something very early of the game. just like Doom3 earlier trailers that where heavily scripted. the final game looks identical and plays almost the same way. Doom3 cutscenes where in realtime and are no very diferent than the playable game.the key word here is REALTIME.. if the scripted demo or cutscenes can run in realtime ,the playable game can run too in real time (something that could end all discussions but people forget).. All they need is to keep the number of characters ,polygons ,textures ,physics,particles and animations at the same level of their scripted demo ,but this time using a very advanced AI as they hint in their interviews that will be using. Where the game characters will try to use a lot mind games to do all they want .
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Old 09-19-05, 08:30 AM   #42
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Smoke
The word you're looking for is "scripted" not "pre-rendered".
Took the words outta my mouth.
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Old 09-19-05, 02:27 PM   #43
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Anyone who has followed the MGS series and isn't a complete frakking idiot knows those scenes while scripted are running real time. Too bad the complete frakking idiots have taken over this thread. Go find a pile of crap to rot in. I think they xbox fanboys are ****ting themselves silly after watching that trailer.
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Old 09-19-05, 03:09 PM   #44
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09...s_6133820.html

Now please shush... never dout Kojima.
You misunderstood my post then. Did I not clearly state that was the real game, and that it WILL look like that? I believe I did, but that was by no means IN-GAME footage. That was a completely pre-rendered movie. For those of you that have issues understanding certain words in the english language, pre-rendered does not equate to CGI. I don't recall saying that this was CGI, but maybe you can prove me wrong on that. Yes, it was running on the real engine on real hardware, but no one was playing that game and recording it. They used the engine to pre-render a movie showing it off, which consquently enabled them to make the overly specific animations that they did. I believe I have said that a multitude of times over many threads, but of course you all choose to tactfully disregard it...

We clear now?
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Old 09-19-05, 03:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

I have come to the conclusion that you do not know what "Pre Rendered" means. If a game is displaying a sequence in real-time then its a scripted scene, the models and characters are scripted to accomplish a certain scene, the player just watches. MGS Series always does this, and so do games like HL2 and DOOM 3.

"Pre Rendering" is when the movie is animated and drawn in a simple manner (usually wire frames) and then is rendered to an output file which can take days if not months. These output files can not be manipulated onces they have been compiled. Final Fantasy is known for using Pre Rendered scenes, the Final Fantasy movie is nothing more then one long pre rendered movie.

On and you clearly misunderstood your own post...and I quote...
Quote:
There is no proof at all that this is real footage. If this is what could be done, why didn't they have a guy out on stage showing it off real-time? This was obviously a pre-rendered video. There is no doubt it will be able to re-create graphics like that, but the video itself was pre-rendered.
If you would have read the article I posted you would have known that Kojima himself as on stage with a controller in his hand manipulating the scripted scene. He played with the shadows and lighting, he even changed the depth blur and HDR effects infront of people. If the scene was pre rendered and not in realtime this would not be possible.

You honestly are one of the biggest bias person (Had a worse word but trying to keep it nice) I have seen in a long time, not only can you outright deny plain and simple facts but then you go on and state your own opinions as facts...
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Old 09-19-05, 03:34 PM   #46
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by |MaguS|
I have come to the conclusion that you do not know what "Pre Rendered" means. If a game is displaying a sequence in real-time then its a scripted scene, the models and characters are scripted to accomplish a certain scene, the player just watches. MGS Series always does this, and so do games like HL2 and DOOM 3.

"Pre Rendering" is when the movie is animated and drawn in a simple manner (usually wire frames) and then is rendered to an output file which can take days if not months. These output files can not be manipulated onces they have been compiled. Final Fantasy is known for using Pre Rendered scenes, the Final Fantasy movie is nothing more then one long pre rendered movie.

On and you clearly misunderstood your own post...and I quote...


If you would have read the article I posted you would have known that Kojima himself as on stage with a controller in his hand manipulating the scripted scene. He played with the shadows and lighting, he even changed the depth blur and HDR effects infront of people. If the scene was pre rendered and not in realtime this would not be possible.

You honestly are one of the biggest bias person (Had a worse word but trying to keep it nice) I have seen in a long time, not only can you outright deny plain and simple facts but then you go on and state your own opinions as facts...
You're right, Kojima walked out on stage with a controller and played with the movie that was already made.. Untill I see him standing on stage playing MGS4 real-time I refuse to believe that's what the animations will look like.

Me biased? I believe that I have been the most moderate of all people here. You all are jumping on MGS4 like the second coming of christ proclaiming it as the best looking next-gen thing ever, when it was clearly "scripted", and not as good looking as other games. The second that I refute your ritual you all glaze over and go into kill anyone that denounces this video mode. You lot are a bunch of PR *****s that probably skeeted all over the screen when you saw that KZ trailer at E3. Sony could stick a boot up on stage and tell you it was a hologram and you all would believe it.

I am as excited as anyone else for next-gen (360 mostly, but PS3 too), but lets get serious. How many real-time demos of games have been shown? 1. How many playable demo's have been shown? 0. Sony has given me absolutely nothing to work with here but a bunch of PR bull**** and one video of a real-time game that looks great, but was scripted nonetheless. People that buy into that PR bull**** and proclaim it better then something else that is legit piss me off. Sorry if this is bad thing.
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Old 09-19-05, 03:40 PM   #47
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Um alot more then a single real-time demo has been shown... actually the nextgen Sonic at the show was played on the PS3 infront of everyone...

So because you personally didn't see him (even though hundreds of other people in the media who attended TGS did), what was shown is fake?

Scripted means nothing, there are plenty of games that are scripted. There is nothing wrong with that. Heck even alot of GoW that was shown was scripted scenes... almost all od DoA4 when first shown was Scripted and so was Ghost Recon x360... and well almost every other game. When a game is not in a playable state but is shown its a SCRIPTED SCENE. So the developers still have a chance to show the game off in its current state even though its not fully playable.

I consider this conversation done... your just too stupid to comprehend anything.
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Old 09-19-05, 05:15 PM   #48
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Default Re: Wardevil RTE(real-time engine)1080 Trailer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by slick
You misunderstood my post then. Did I not clearly state that was the real game, and that it WILL look like that? I believe I did, but that was by no means IN-GAME footage. That was a completely pre-rendered movie. For those of you that have issues understanding certain words in the english language, pre-rendered does not equate to CGI. I don't recall saying that this was CGI, but maybe you can prove me wrong on that. Yes, it was running on the real engine on real hardware, but no one was playing that game and recording it. They used the engine to pre-render a movie showing it off, which consquently enabled them to make the overly specific animations that they did. I believe I have said that a multitude of times over many threads, but of course you all choose to tactfully disregard it...

We clear now?
MGS4 wanst a pre-rendered movie.. again.. look at the developer interview. the trailer was..

1)running on the real engine
2)was running on the real hardware
3)it wasnt an engine demo.. but MGS4 in game footage.
4)and was running in real time.

in the other side ,CG movies in the FIlm industry arent real time.. , they are all pre-rendered. they are thousands of recorded frames that each one takes hours to render the scene usually in powerfull workstations. that is pre-rendendered stuff. they use professional software to produce the images.

GAmes (playable games) are thousands of non-recorded frames that are displayed on the fly on your screen and that you can control . it doesnt take hours the rendering of frames but just 1 second to render more than 30 frames at a time.. that is what realtime means.. 25-30 frames per second.

MGS4 trailer was captured from the real Game 100% rendered in realtime. even the otagon small videos in the RObot where in real time They could change the lighting on the fly.The only diference between a playable game and MGS4 demo is that this latest one is scripted. this mean the characters actions .. when to run ,walk or fight was already programmed in some script and not controlled by someone in the public. that was Scripted means.. the intructions of what the characters will do in the game and where to go was already programmed in the demo. But this was already explained because they only had a couple of months to show something of their game. THis is a non issue ,because all games are scripted in some degree. it just that they allow you to control at least the main character. This IS not diferent than EPic Unreal engine3 demo on the PS3 .. that was running in real time too , but just like MGS4 it was scripted .Was not in playable in any form, The only thing that can be controlled or "played" was the camera.. where you can freely navigate it in the game ,just like MGS4 demo in TGS event.. And this is clearly impossible to do in something that was previously recorded ,pre-rendered or CG stuff. Most likely most of the Xbox360 trailers released where scripted too.. if their developers had few time to work in their games.
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