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Old 02-11-03, 08:51 PM   #13
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From VE3d...

The point HardOCP makes (and which I believe is a valid concern) is that they don't fall back to PS 1.3 (i.e supported on Geforce 3 & 4 cards) but instead fall all the way back to PS 1.1. So of course the ATI cards have an advantage over most Nvidia cards in the tests that use the pixel shaders.
This is the problem Nvidia has spread Nothing but misinformation for years. And it continues. PS 1.2 and 1.3 do not increase performance at all. it has No effect on the number of passes it takes to render a shader. Never has never will. Nvidia DAMN WELL KNEW that the dx 8.1 spec was going to be PS 1.4 and that it was a subset of the comming PS 2.0.

Whos fault is it??? Thats right THEIR OWN!! Now They are going to cry and whine like little babies? 3dmark 2001 used PS 1.1 and took no real advantage of PS 1.4. ATi said nothing, and Nvidia pushed it as the best benchmark on earth. They did not even peep about the lack of PS 1.2/1.3 in the SE release. Why? like i said PS 1.2/1.3 is for show and tell only. makes no difference at all. Notice not one game has ever included ps 1.2/1.3 not even for a single small effect???Now its all different.

For the record....
Cards that support PS 1.1
GFFX (when it ships)
All exactly the same only clocked different for model variations.

Cards that support PS 1.4
R 8500
R 9000
R 9500/9500 pro
R 9700
R 9900 (in a coupple more weeks)

Most of the ATi cards are also DX9 where Nvidia does not even have a SINGLE DX9 card out yet. No wonder their scores suck. The Other Question they raise about Vertex shaders. Ati cards have a QUAD vertex engine and Nvidia only supports an array of 3.. whos fault is that??? They cant even win the DX9 Shader tests with their PAST DX9 super card clocked 200mhz FASTER than anything else. Again Whos Fault is that???

I really honestly hope that most people and web sites see through this and do whats right. Not pandering to Nvidia, they dont deserve it.

Edit: Doom-III and several other comming games are using PS 1.4
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Old 02-11-03, 09:24 PM   #14
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Their just cryin like morons now, this is pathetic...

WHY do you think games dont use PS1.4??? Because of Nvidia forcing developers to optimize for their own cards using weak PS1.1, PS1.4 looks alot better from what I saw. That's when you see "hows it's ment to be played" bs

Nvidia's hardware sucks ass, the only thing that still holds them is the drivers, but I bet my ass that when they say "we are improving preformance" they actualy are decreasing the Image quality and we'll end up with same or maybe even worse then GF4 IQ
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Old 02-11-03, 09:44 PM   #15
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I really don't even think Nvidia's drivers are that good, it's just that game developers work around Nvidia's shortcomings and don't even pay attention to ATi. That will change if Nvidia keeps it up....
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Old 02-11-03, 09:48 PM   #16
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nVIDIA's starting to smell like 3dfx did at the end. Screw up after screw up.
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Old 02-11-03, 10:06 PM   #17
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Yes indeed. It seem Nvidia can't just shut up, and get back to work. Everytime they make a statement lately, its just like digging the hole deeper, and deeper, and deeper....

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Old 02-11-03, 11:23 PM   #18
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3dmark is a good prog to see how well youre card is performing but you must be careful how to do it. For example is a good way to see if your system is working right cause you can compare to another similar pc.
Nvidia say that the tests dont represent future games i believe the opposite. For eg Doom3 is going to be similar to games 2 and 3 and that engine is going to stay for a long time.
The other tests are also interesting especially the sound test...
Im not defending 3dmark or anything in fact i hate when people only buy cards cause they get higher 3dmarks. 3dmark is not the holy grail of 3d cards perfomance it s just another good tool to see how well your card is.

just my $2

Note: Im begining to hate nvidia everyday that pass....
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Old 02-12-03, 01:31 AM   #19
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Problem is that people tend to run 3dmark just for a higher score. To do that they make their system unstable through a wide variety of tweaks/overclocking and other wordly PC conduct.

They don't normally play with those settings in games.
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Old 02-12-03, 02:16 AM   #20
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the times they are a changing ! wow i didnt expect so much nvidia bashing ,the **** has definately hit the fan this time ,has everyone lost confidence with nvidia ? i know i have. even if they do say they optimise for games and not benchmarks they knew what that benchmark was about and that everyone would be using it. i think all this is really fishy .i agree with hell' on this one. i cant wait to see the scores 9700 vs fx
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