Christians and War

[knghtwhosaysni]

I know not all of the Iraq supporters here are Christian, but of those who are, I'm curious how that can work, both killing and being Christian.

I saw one post (though there are probably many more like it) calling this one dude a Swedish pussy because they don't fight. In the Christian mindset, what's so wrong with being a "pussy" and not fighting? Wouldn't God prefer us to not kill?

Eh, the way I see things, I would rather be a pussy and be the victim of an attack rather than break that commandment of not killing.

Any thoughts on why some of you Christian guys don't share this view would be nice

[JemyM]

The New Testament's most important rule is "You should love god and your neighbour". If you do that you are very much home free. Ofcourse, there are many supposed "christians" who have a really hard time loving their neighbours.

Another universal rule that is according to the new testament inherited from the old testament is "You should not kill". But on the other hand, Christianity forgive everything except denying the holy spirit, so if you feel like it you can pretty much break the entire book as long as you ask for forgiveness and do not deny the holy spirit.

[grey_1]

Originally Posted by JemyM

The New Testament's most important rule is "You should love god and your neighbour". If you do that you are very much home free. Ofcourse, there are many supposed "christians" who have a really hard time loving their neighbours.

Another universal rule that is according to the new testament inherited from the old testament is "You should not kill". But on the other hand, Christianity forgive everything except denying the holy spirit, so if you feel like it you can pretty much break the entire book as long as you ask for forgiveness and do not deny the holy spirit.

LoL, and look who tries to define what a christian should or shouldn't do. And as usual you mangled another commandment/verse. Your brilliant, so I'll let you figure out how.

WRT to the topic, the bible commands me to "love my enemy", also to pray for him. It also says "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword." Nowhere does it tell me to be a pacifist.

If jemy here takes a swing at me I'm going to hit him with a baseball bat. If I'm being shot at or my family is in danger then alls fair. And yes, I will ask forgiveness for it and believe I'll get it.

That said, violence does does. Sometimes it's hard to avoid.

[JemyM]

Originally Posted by grey_1

LoL, and look who tries to define what a christian should or shouldn't do. And as usual you mangled another commandment/verse. Your brilliant, so I'll let you figure out how. WRT to the topic, the bible commands me to "love my enemy", also to pray for him. It also says "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword." Nowhere does it tell me to be a pacifist.

So tell me what you say to god in your prayers for the Iraqi soldiers. I would also like to know what the priest in your church say about them.

[knghtwhosaysni]

Directly before "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword," doesn't Jesus say something to the effect of "Put your sword away"? That, combined with the commandment of "you shall not kill" makes it seem to me that it is pretty clear that a Christian should not kill.I don't even see how "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" even qualifies killing anyway; all I'm getting from that is whoever fights will die fighting, and makes me feel like that fight is a lost cause.

Anywho, I thought the main idea of Christianity was to try to be like Christ as much as humanly possible, and at no point does he kill anybody.

And why should a Christian have any reason to kill? Shouldn't a good Christian go to heaven? Why do you need to break a commandment to protect this material life?

[grey_1]

Originally Posted by JemyM

So tell me what you say to god in your prayers for the Iraqi soldiers. I would also like to know what the priest in your church say about them.

Quite frankly jemy, I've found that telling you anything is pointless. Your totally incapable of considering information put in front of you, whether you agree with it or not, and incapable of discussing openly any points you disagree with. I suggest you take some cues from many of the other athiests on this board and learn that disagreement does not = hate.

[rhink]

There is no commandment that says 'thou shalt not kill.' The commandment comes from a word that means specifically to murder.

[grey_1]

Originally Posted by knghtwhosaysni

Directly before "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword," doesn't Jesus say something to the effect of "Put your sword away"? That, combined with the commandment of "you shall not kill" makes it seem to me that it is pretty clear that a Christian should not kill.I don't even see how "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword" even qualifies killing anyway; all I'm getting from that is whoever fights will die fighting, and makes me feel like that fight is a lost cause.

Anywho, I thought the main idea of Christianity was to try to be like Christ as much as humanly possible, and at no point does he kill anybody.

And why should a Christian have any reason to kill? Shouldn't a good Christian go to heaven? Why do you need to break a commandment to protect this material life?

Jesus was being arrested, not physically attacked. Also factor in that events had to take place in order for prophecy regarding Jesus to come to pass.

"Thou shalt not kill" is not a great translation. "Thou shalt not murder" as in taking of innocent life, would be closer.

The bible also says "no greater love than he who lay his life down for another"..dieing by the sword, is not always = to condemnation.

That said, I believe we are to avoid violence and killing where ever possible. In some extreme situations, war for example, laying down your rifle without having the chance to say why, would be pretty pointless. It wouldn't do a thing to further Jesus' cause.

[CybrSage]

It is a tough situation, to be sure. There are many groups of Christians who believe that pure pacifism is the only way to truely emulate Jesus.

I disagree, and I call to mind the removal of skin via a whip, with Jesus holding the whip. He forced the people who were profaning the temple in Jerusalem out of the temple area, and he used a whip to make them leave. That is definately an offensive, and agressive, action.

Could I see Jesus using a gun to remove them? Not really, but definately a taser.

The commandment is definately You will not murder, the King James Version was a mistranslation. Offensive warfare does not count as murder, for after giving the commandments, God told the Israelites to invade and conquer a land, slaughtering all who inhabited it.

Things did change with the New Testament, and many things that were allowed in the Old Testament went away (along with most of the rules).

We should try to find a peaceful way to solve problems first, and only use violence if it is to cause good or to defend ourselves.

[DiscipleDOC]

Originally Posted by grey_1

Quite frankly jemy, I've found that telling you anything is pointless. Your totally incapable of considering information put in front of you, whether you agree with it or not, and incapable of discussing openly any points you disagree with. I suggest you take some cues from many of the other athiests on this board and learn that disagreement does not = hate.

Thank you. Responding to people that already have their minds made up about my faith is both pointless and unfruitful.

[Peoples-Agent]

What's the bigger crime?

To kill in the defence of the innocent or to allow the innocent to be killed, also potentially risking the lives of your own people by allowing these scumbags to prosper and grow.

Every War is different, and there hasn't been one in hundreds of years that can be directly linked to a Christian use of aggressive force.

Throughout history is a different matter, but if we're going to wittle on the past how the hell are we going to get anywhere?

If say, Sweden.... had something of importance, either strategic positioning on the globe, strong ties to a particular Allie etc they would come under threat or attack......

Would you have a problem with War then?

I wish people would grasp the concept of a pre-emptive strike ffs.

Men risk their lives, their sanity and a huge slice of their soul putting bodies in the dirt on foreign soil just so we can eat pork, refuse to beat our women, not hang young girls for defending her own life, not be forced to grow beards, and limiting the amount of times some 72 virgin chaser decides to commit suicide with a bomb.

In a Eutopian future, where Mullahs have grown a heart and I have opened my "Martyr Fields" where they can go and blow themselves up without harming anyone else and secure their place in heaven, I will say the only people who will try and stop them would be the Christians. Me personally, would be stood there with a beer laughing.

[Ninjaman09]

Anyone who actually studied the Bible at some point would know that righteous killing (self-defense, war, etc) is not prohibited. It only addresses murder. The "turn the other cheek" bit relates more to how you conduct yourself in situations where people are trying your patience (from insults, etc) rather than a person putting a gun to your head. I don't think the Bible encourages people to allow their enemies to blow them to bits just because they'll get into Heaven anyway.

Nice try, though. Well...not really.