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Old 05-08-03, 09:14 PM   #26
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Ok I just read through the other thread at rage3d noted you had an msi.. I don't have that board so unless we can find someone else with one who also has the 9700pro there will be no luck ..

as far as you motherboard I have had two msi boards with no problems and two epox boards both with problems... so i would have a hard time blaming your mother board.. however I would agree with the other posts in that thread that were able to replace their motherboard and get it to work... i would with the epox the 9700AIW is probably not a good choice...

i agree your resell should not charge you a 20% restocking fee when the card is not compatible with the MB you have.. of course we still have not seen proof that that is the issue but it does not look like the MB shipset if anything it would have to be the bios or agpslot...

I would place a major complaint with your vendor if they still refuse to refund full price - shipping. also if you were in the US I would just say to sell it to someone else .. ...
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Old 05-08-03, 09:52 PM   #27
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Rob,

did you try to remove both the standard and the extra power connectors from the mother board and plug them back in like I suggested? Again it worked for me.

Quote:
I say again it is irelevant I don't care which company he prefers, the fact is he is having trouble with a ATI video card and is annoyed at ATI, that is completly reasonable. Dragging NVIDIA into this for no reason is just pointless.
There is a right way and a wrong way to ask for help. Rob did not choose the right way with his opening statement. He is blaming ATI for his issue when it could be something else or a combination of things which he does not yet know. I understand that he spent money and is upset. But still.
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Old 05-09-03, 06:01 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbirney
There is a right way and a wrong way to ask for help. Rob did not choose the right way with his opening statement. He is blaming ATI for his issue when it could be something else or a combination of things which he does not yet know. I understand that he spent money and is upset. But still.

Urm no i didnt. What i said first off was a joke, and not serious.

I think im allowed to be annoyed at spending £350 + Shipping on a card that wont work because it trips the saftey feature on my PSU and using a bit of humor to lighten the situation? Dont you?
Especially when previously i had sitting in that slot a power hungry monster that was the FX 5800 Ultra and had ZERO issues. So to me that indicates the AIW is taking power in such a way that would damage the PSU or mainboard so its shutting down.

I have attempted to fix the issue even to the point of of almost spending another £113 on a new 550w PSU. Until i just read this from rage3d...

Quote:
I wouldn't bet on that Enermax changing anything. There seems to be a direct link between this problem and the better quality PSU's (PC P&C, Antec, Enermax, etc.) regardless of wattage. I can boot every time with an older Antec 300w or even a generic 250w but if I plug into a Truepower 430w or a Truecontrol 550w I get nothing.
I think you'll find similar stories in most of the other posts.
Success with generic, lesser quality and older name brands, problems with the high end. There are exceptions but this appears to be the norm.
Save your money and go with a temporary workaround if you can stand it. I think there are enough people having the problem that a solution is not far off.
So i decided not to bother. Now do you call it acceptable to have to create a 'manual switch' just to get graphics a card working?? I am not giving up on ATI, im just blaming them for the AIW and the problem that they seem not to be taking seriously. The next card i purchase is going to be a 9800 pro FYI.
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Old 05-09-03, 06:03 AM   #29
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to eagle17

As far as the problem being replicated - there is a 5 page thread on rage3d that proves im not alone and that it happens on a multitude of different configuratins. I can find plenty of others on amdforums.com and other sites too if you would like me to post links?

One guy in Rage3d in that thread btw actually has an MSI K7N2G (but not the ILSR like mine) and it didnt work also until he replaced the PSU.

So far it seems that expensive PSU's cause the problem, because the AIW draws too much power on a cold boot and it 'trips' the saftey overload/volt feature on the PSU. It seems purchasing a CHEAP QTec 550w solves the problem for the people that ive seen try it.

However... Im not willing to comprimise my system by getting a cheap powersupply with no saftey features. Its just unacceptable and ive decided that its not worth the messing around so im going to return the card and purchase a 9800PRO. Hopefully i will have better luck.

Im not blaming ATI in the way you guys think (ATI Sucks, NVIDIA Rocks blah blah), im just annoyed that such an issue can go un-noticed by ANY review sites that did an AIW review and that tech support has no mention of it when obviously its a major problem that affects many people.
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Old 05-09-03, 07:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by saturnotaku
No, see, the thing is, you must not know how to install a video card properly because ATI as we all know is perfect.

Sorry the card didn't work out for 'ya, but I want to prepare you for what people like Hellbinder are going to say.

Seriuosly, though, did you read through that thread you posted and see the things people have done to try and solve their problems? Have you checked the part number as some of the -10 boards have been known to cause people problems?
/turns on Hellbinder mode
oh u fokin fanboi, I will cum to ur house and killz u wit teh ati card. RAAAAR
/turns off Hellbinder mode



I am just kidding HB.
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Old 05-09-03, 07:39 AM   #31
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Seem's i missed out some good stuff in the NVIDIA forum, NV35

I may just jold off my purchase of the 9800pro now

Thanks for the help from some peeps in here btw but im just giving up for now officialy. I have been messing around with bios settings/cables etc and with no luck. So im just sending it back.

Ta
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Old 05-09-03, 05:50 PM   #32
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I am really baffled by the Enermax ps not giving enough power!!!!! I have a 350w enermax (2 fans) and it powerd my dual AMD MP system, 2 hdd's 3cd roms. scsi card, audio, vida and 2 nics. it also had 4 80mm fans.

MP's do suck the power imho, im really surpized.
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Old 05-09-03, 06:08 PM   #33
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Hehe yeah well i dont think its so much it not being able to supply enough, more of the saftey feature kicking in to stop it 'possibly' damaging the PSU etc. It seems likley as if the PSU is replaced for a bog standard PSU (or older PSU without the overvolt features) the problem goes away.

However this problem seems something that ATI cant fix without a new revision/redesign so thats most likley why they are staying silent about it. Much like NVIDIA kept quiet about the NV30 not being all its cracked up to be.
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Old 05-10-03, 09:04 PM   #34
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Rob

So you did this:

ONly the video card
no pci cards
bios is standard boot
only mouse, keyboard, monitor, and vga?

No fans besides the cpu fan and case open.

I suppose you've tried this but it IS the last resort.

Rogo
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Old 05-10-03, 09:25 PM   #35
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R3xx ALLinwonders does not support more than one monitor
but i guess you already discovered that..

Robhague try Personal CInema2 from Nvidia
it has many nice features ,or you can better
get a Kick ass professional standalone tv/radio/videocapture and more..
PCi card with an Nv35

here is the Number#1 program for TV /media recording ..
and his compatibility list..

http://www.showshifter.com/support/cardswork.htm

its an amazing program, it records to AVI,MPEG or many other formats
with diferents compressions at diferent image quality .
and BTW be warned with ATi cards in the FOrum you will find
people not very happy with AIW and catalist drivers .

http://www.showshifter.com/cgi-bin/u...?ubb=forum;f=7

i have heard many good things about Hauppauge captures cards..
take a look which one is for you..

http://www.hauppauge.com/html/products.htm#pci

or you can buy a very cheap $50 pinnacle studio pro
tv turner/video capture PCI card. i have one connected to my
DIrect tv satelite receiver ,to watch and record movies in my PC.

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Old 05-11-03, 07:04 AM   #36
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Hey i was in the forum (rage3d) and i found a small list of PSU's that are known to work with the card.

Rather than go through all the hassle of returning it if i can help it i have ordered a few PSU's, Chieftec 360w and a 420w. Hopfully it will work out ok - if not then i guess i will have to look else where.

Yeah rogozhin i have tried it with nothing connected, same issue. Remove the connection to the AIW and it works fine. Its just stupid that a guy on rage3d bought an Enermax 550W! and to his supprise it did the exact same thing for him. Crazy.

I would try Personal Cinema 2 by Nvidia but its a pretty poor 3d card. Geforce4 MX 420 just wont cut it . I want a good 3dcard the AIW features are just nice usful extra's. I just upgraded (can you call it that?) from an FX 5800 Ultra you see.

Right well my PSU's should arrive on Tuesday so ill report back if i have any luck.
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Old 05-11-03, 09:56 AM   #37
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See, this is what happens when you curse ATI. You'll never join our club... never.... muhuhuhuhuhuhuh....




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Old 05-11-03, 10:01 AM   #38
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Seem's my "cursing" or ATI wasnt for nothing . I might be buying an ATI graphics card (i want AIW features and a good 3dcard), but NVIDIA is still the better company IMO. Im not sure why peeps seem to think im some sort of die-hard nvidia fan just because i defend them in the forums. It's a discussion board, would be really dull if everyone had the same viewpoint wouldnt it?

NV30 sucks, R300 Rulez
"Yes"
"I Agree"
"Indeed"
"What he said"
"Me too"
"Yep"
"Ok"
"Good"
"So true"
.....



Anyway we are all entitled to opinions and IMHO when someone starts saying "fanboy" they ARE the fanboys themselves. Are people so hollow that they have to find their identity in a particular brand?

So ends my speech.. :P
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Old 05-11-03, 10:58 AM   #39
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Maybe becuase this your first ATI that makes it look like your a nvidiot...

I still can't beleive your card doesn't work. lol...

Nforce2's are the best chipset for the 9700's.

Tried taking the battery out and reseting the bios?

My tyan tiger does the same thing when ever you take a PCI card out. Turn it on, and the fans spin a half turn, then the PSU turns off. It does it with any video card or slot. :/

Turns out it doesn't like the PSU plugged into the mains (for earthing), regardless of what position the rear PSU mains switch is in. To fix it I need to disconnect the ATX power supply cable to the mobo and leave it for 5 mins. If that doesn't work after 3 tries resetting the CMOS does.

Running an Enermax 550W. Although I only upgraded from an Apollo 300W PSU becuase I needed a fan with a fan vent in the base. 2 AMD XP's give off a lot of heat that just floats to the top of the case.

edit:

I even had 2 extra IBM drives on a raid card and a 2nd sound card running on the 300W psu. No probs.
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Old 05-11-03, 11:01 AM   #40
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Oh, and remember Nvidia had 6+ months to iron out any problems with crappy AGP8x mobos.
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Old 05-11-03, 11:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by euan
Maybe becuase this your first ATI that makes it look like your a nvidiot...
That's because only recently ATI have produced something that was worthy of purchase

The last NVIDIA card i bought was a Geforce3 Ti200. Excellent card. Oh and the 5800 Ultra just recentley because i was interested in this enigma of a graphics card. It is a fine card too - at least it works *cough*

Im hoping it (the 9700) will work when i plug in the Cheiftec 420w, id rather use the 420w vs the 360w as the 420 is a DualFAN (like i have at the moment with the Enermax). I do know that Qtec 550w PSU's work but these seem a little "too cheap" to me and i dont want to risk my system. I hope i can get the 9700 working as it seems a nicely made card, even though its a Sapphire one it has a 'Built by ATI' sticker on the box so i assume that its just packaged by sapphire. I just want something that gives decent performance and features and does not sound like a hurricane (i made my PC quiet and FXFlow then became an issue) im also just interested in what is so special about the 9700 .

Anyhow ill have a play when i crack the case open to try out these PSU's but if im unsuccessful then i may just get a Ti4600/Ti4800 for the time being.
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Old 05-11-03, 11:35 AM   #42
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I am getting the feeling the radeon boards arent takeing a likeing to Enermax PS's.

I do have to warn you, my friend has a cheiftech '420w' ps that came with his case... this was pre my new enermax ps and i told him "dude, your PS is ****, my 350enermax makes more watts on the 12v rail" he said "no, this is a 420w ps", then we compared sticker rateings and i laughed my ass off. From being a sticktly enermax PS user, i like my 12v rails : P


Edit -----------

P.S.

No werid problem on this enermax its a 420w Silent model.

Only complaint is my wires are so long my case is really clutterd : O
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Old 05-11-03, 02:15 PM   #43
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Hmmmm strange, anyway they seem pretty decent enough. Not ideal but if it works ill be happy.

I just checked out the specs of the PSU's...

Enermax 350w(Current)

+3.3v = 32A
+5v = 32A
+12v = 26A
-5v = 1A
-12v = 1A
+5Vsb = 2.2A
+3.3V & +5V = 185W


Chieftec 420W

+3.3v = 30A
+5v = 40A
+12v = 18A
-5v = 0.3A
-12v = 0.8A
+5Vsb = 2A


Chieftec 360w

+5V: 35A
+3.3V: 28A
+12V: 17A
-5V: 0.3A
-12V: 0.8A
+5VSB: 2A
+3.3v & +5v + 220W
204W for the +12V rail


Now the Chieftec 360w is less but more on the 5v (35A) than the Enermax. Its also 220w for the combined 5v and 3.3 where as its only 180w for the Enermax. Maybe this is where the Radeon is being more demanding on the PSU?? Hmmm well on the Rage3d forum they had success with a 360w Chieftec on a simular board to mine (MSI K7N2G) but the PC failed to boot when they had an Antec 480w/Antec 350w.

Here is a quote...

Quote:
My AIW card refuses to boot if you attach the extra powercable... however, this is only true if I use either my Antec 350W SmartBlue or my Antec 480W TrueBlue PSU. If I instead use a Chieftec 360W, it works perfectly!!

I've talked to Antec about it, and they claim that they have no problems with any of their powersupplies and the AIW card...

However, if you look at this thread it seems like people are having this problem with many different PSUs and different motherboards... (although it seems like it's primarily Nforce2-based boards)
and...

Quote:
I had the exct same problem and i had a 400W PSU . I don´t have time to write all the tests i had made the week i needed to get the AIW going but IT IS DEFINETLY YOUR PSU! I excahged with my friend for a 360W Cheftek PSU and it runs like a charm now!
also....

Quote:
Yeah, I know, mine works great with the 360W Chieftec, only problem is that my OC becomes a hell of a lot more unstable with it instead of the 480W Antec.
Certainley VERY interesting and the best lead i have so far (apart from the tatty Qtec 550w PSU's that seem to work for most people ). Looks like its not just the PSU but the Mainboard too. Maybe certain combo's just cause this issue, i certainly cant say ive seen anyone have this problem with an Intel system. Maybe the athlon nforce2's are using power on some rail in which the Radeon relies on.

Personally if i thought it would do anygood id pay £120+ for a PSU (Id go right for the Enermax 550w) but it seems that with this issue you have to get the 'right' PSU not the best.

I shall see Tuesday hopfully. Fingers crossed things work, i really want to have a play with this card. I think if this dont work nothing will as this is sorta the first and last thing i can try. Apart from this im out of idea's. Wish me luck.
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Old 05-11-03, 03:55 PM   #44
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yeah that's a problem with motherboards. For example if I go above 2 XP1800's on my mobo, the ATX connector on the mobo will melt. This is because the board uses the 5V rail for the CPU regulators, instead of the more sensible 12V. If I want to upgrade, I have to solder a molex connector to the back of the connector.
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Old 05-12-03, 01:07 AM   #45
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Default Is it just the AIW or all the 9700s?

I'm thinking of ponying up for a Sapphire 9700 non-pro if my current card isn't able to run Vice City as well as I'd like it to. However, I have the same 350W Enermax power supply, and the cheap OEM places I buy from have a 20% restocking fee that I'd like to avoid.

Is this PSU issue unique to the AIW?
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Old 05-12-03, 06:25 AM   #46
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Default Re: Is it just the AIW or all the 9700s?

Quote:
Originally posted by Smashed
I'm thinking of ponying up for a Sapphire 9700 non-pro if my current card isn't able to run Vice City as well as I'd like it to. However, I have the same 350W Enermax power supply, and the cheap OEM places I buy from have a 20% restocking fee that I'd like to avoid.

Is this PSU issue unique to the AIW?
Yes....... Running various R300/350's(non AIW's) with Enermax & Antec with no problems whatsoever....
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Old 05-12-03, 07:49 AM   #47
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Actually thats not strictley true, while the issue affects mainly AIW cards i have seen people with standard 9700np/pro have a simular problem. But its not as common as it is for the AIW card so you should be fine. Let me know how it turns out btw - if you have success with the same PSU and a 9700 then i may risk buying a standard card myself if the AIW still wont work for me.
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Old 05-12-03, 08:10 AM   #48
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I am running the following cards(o/c'ed, BTW) on the following powersupplies & MB's (also o/c'ed, most big time!) with no problem:

9700P & 9800P on a 412x Antec 400 watt( modded by ajusting internal pots to increase +3.3,+5 & +12 volts)- Epox 8k3a+, MSI Ultra3(Via333) and Soltec Sl-75FRN2 (Nforce2)

9700P & 9800P on an older Enermax model 465 (400 watt)- Epox 8k3a+, MSI Ultra3(Via333) and Soltec Sl-75FRN2 (Nforce2)

9700P,9800P & 9500P on a 403SX Antec(older)400 watt - Epox 8k3a+ & MSI Ultra3(Via333)

9700P,9800P & 9500P on a Macron MPT 350 watt - Epox 8k3a+ & MSI Ultra3(Via333)

9700P,9800P & 9500P on a Macron MPT 400 watt - Epox 8k3a+ & MSI Ultra3(Via333)


Hope this helps.

EDIT:Actually, I've had far more problems originally with the GF3 & 4 cards, which forced me to finally find some decent power supplies (well, Epox MB's als had something to do with this! )

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Old 05-13-03, 02:08 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobHague
Actually thats not strictley true, while the issue affects mainly AIW cards i have seen people with standard 9700np/pro have a simular problem. But its not as common as it is for the AIW card so you should be fine. Let me know how it turns out btw - if you have success with the same PSU and a 9700 then i may risk buying a standard card myself if the AIW still wont work for me.
If I go for the upgrade now, I'll certainly post my experiences with it. That'll mainly depend on Vice City though.

If at all possible, I'd really be just as happy leaving it until Autumn. By that time, I hope Nvidia will have a compelling NV35 based mid-range card in my price window so I could have a few more choices.
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Old 05-13-03, 06:11 PM   #50
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Rob, sell that piece of junk and do what NV40 said

Quote:
get a Kick ass professional standalone tv/radio/videocapture and more..
Then get NV35. You'll never look at ATI junk again.

And you can keep your PSU, without wasting even more money.

And even better, you won't have to deal with idiots like in this thread.
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