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Old 09-16-03, 03:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Check out this thread at B3D about nVidia getting Eidos to pull the Tomb Raider patch that had the benchmarking code in it!

Someone hold me, I'm scared!


This is worthy of a thread all of its own if it's true.

I'm not even sure I'd gotten round to downloading this patch somewhere... I hope I'll be able to find it somewhere if not, I need it for benchmarking.
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Old 09-16-03, 03:48 PM   #52
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This is worthy of a thread all of its own if it's true.

I'm not even sure I'd gotten round to downloading this patch somewhere... I hope I'll be able to find it somewhere if not, I need it for benchmarking.
Well don't throw it up on the front-page of EliteBastards quite yet...I'm actually downloading the patch in question as I type this so I think the B3D post is either a bit premature or a warning that it's going to happen soon.

I'm going to keep an eye on that file and see if it just happens to "disapear"...

EDITED BITS: Oh yeah, here's the link to the patch.
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Old 09-16-03, 03:50 PM   #53
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Oops... Too late, already posted the news.

It's already gone from Eidos' site and File Planet.
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Old 09-16-03, 03:51 PM   #54
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Originally posted by Hanners
Oops... Too late, already posted the news.

It's already gone from Eidos' site and File Planet.
Try the direct link, I'm still in the middle of downloading it so I bet they just removed it from their page but didn't pull the file yet...
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Old 09-16-03, 03:58 PM   #55
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It's okay, I got it.
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Old 09-16-03, 04:04 PM   #56
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Where did you find it?!?! Here or here?
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Old 09-16-03, 04:06 PM   #57
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wait - how has nVidia been traced to this? Just wondering...
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Old 09-16-03, 04:08 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by serAph
wait - how has nVidia been traced to this? Just wondering...
Quote:
"It has come to the attention of Eidos that an unreleased patch for Tomb Raider: AOD has unfortunately been used as the basis for videocard benchmarking. While Eidos and Core appreciate the need for modern benchmarking software that utilizes the advanced shading capabilities of modern graphics hardware, Tomb Raider: AOD Patch 49 was never intended for public release and is not a basis for valid benchmarking comparisons. Core and Eidos believe that Tomb Raider: AOD performs exceptionally well on NVIDIA hardware." - Paul Baldwin, Eidos
Is the reason Eidos is giving...'nuff said or do you need it explained to you?

Funny thing? The earlier version of TRAOD still has the benchmarking tools in it...but the performance is even worse.
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Old 09-16-03, 04:09 PM   #59
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Originally posted by serAph
wait - how has nVidia been traced to this? Just wondering...
Maybe you can give me a reason they felt the need to explicitly state "we feel that Nvidia performs exceptionally well in AOD" when that has nothing to do with the reason they say they are pulling the patch?
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Old 09-16-03, 04:17 PM   #60
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Maybe you can give me a reason they felt the need to explicitly state "we feel that Nvidia performs exceptionally well in AOD" when that has nothing to do with the reason they say they are pulling the patch?
hmm. Ok ya that is fishy.
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Old 09-16-03, 04:17 PM   #61
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Originally posted by reever2
Maybe you can give me a reason they felt the need to explicitly state "we feel that Nvidia performs exceptionally well in AOD" when that has nothing to do with the reason they say they are pulling the patch?
Mebbe because they feel that nVidia runs their game the way it was meant to be played....
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Old 09-16-03, 04:26 PM   #62
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Mebbe because they feel that nVidia runs their game the way it was meant to be played....
Hehehe. I find it funnier that this is your hobby
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Old 09-16-03, 04:35 PM   #63
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Hehehe. I find it funnier that this is your hobby
Really? What are you doing here twinkle-toes? Just here to save me from the errors of me ways?
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Old 09-16-03, 04:43 PM   #64
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Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Really? What are you doing here twinkle-toes? Just here to save me from the errors of me ways?
nope - Im here to learn - not take every single possible chance to chuckle at the expense of nVidia and nVidia card owners.

Dontcha think it already sucks bad enough for those of us who purchased 3x series cards?
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Old 09-16-03, 04:47 PM   #65
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Originally posted by serAph
nope - Im here to learn - not take every single possible chance to chuckle at the expense of nVidia and nVidia card owners.

Dontcha think it already sucks bad enough for those of us who purchased 3x series cards?
You could alway sell that piece of trash for more than it's worth in Ebay. It's your choice, really.
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Old 09-16-03, 04:48 PM   #66
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Originally posted by serAph
nope - Im here to learn - not take every single possible chance to chuckle at the expense of nVidia and nVidia card owners.

Dontcha think it already sucks bad enough for those of us who purchased 3x series cards?
Yes I do, but you bought the card under false pretenses since nVidia's been lying to you....why do you so desperately seem to keep wanting to believe their lies?
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Old 09-16-03, 04:51 PM   #67
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Yes I do, but you bought the card under false pretenses since nVidia's been lying to you....why do you so desperately seem to keep wanting to believe their lies?
nobody has lied to me about 5x.xx yet. Also, nobody has told me anything short of the flaws of 4x2 vs 8x1 as to why their hardware is flawed in ps2.0. what else am I to believe? Also, ATi and I go waaaaay back. I shudder in horror every time I recall upon the performance of their pre 8xxx series cards.
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Old 09-16-03, 04:52 PM   #68
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I shudder in horror every time I recall upon the performance of their pre 8xxx series cards.
I had no problems with 7xxx-series performance. Now, 7xxx-series drivers.. that's another story.
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Old 09-16-03, 05:02 PM   #69
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Originally posted by serAph
nobody has lied to me about 5x.xx yet*
*emphasis added
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Old 09-16-03, 05:14 PM   #70
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nobody has lied to me about 5x.xx yet. Also, nobody has told me anything short of the flaws of 4x2 vs 8x1 as to why their hardware is flawed in ps2.0. what else am I to believe?
Well, when they come out.. be prepared to find the truth...

The differece between the 4x2 design vs the 8x1 design is very simple.... 4x2 relies on MULTITEXTURING to provide more peformance (close to the equivalent of an 8x1 design)... however.. for SINGLE TEXTURING operations (which I hear that multitexturing is being phased out, except for Doom3)... the NV3X series will run them at approximately HALF (1/2) speed... (I could be wrong on the number)

Their PS2.0 hardware is flawed in the way they designed it on their cards...
Their hardware units are fully FP32... and can use FP16 (using 1/2 an FP32 unit)... however, these units are NOT enough (there is 4 FP32 units to my knowledge)... whereas the R300/350 has 8 FP24 dedicated units... the NV3X series has "juggle" between 4 full FP32 units (using FP24 would be a waste of space) OR 8 "virtual" FP16 units (in theory, you could say use 3 FP32 units for FP16 operations and 1 FP32 unit for a FP32 operation ).. which.. to my knowledge is being shared somehow (so you won't be getting full performance when certain operations are done)..

To sum it up... there's no comparable way to make the NV3X series AS fast as the R3XX series... optimizations ARE needed to optimize the the NV3X's potential, BUT, generally these optimizations will end up outputting LOWER QUALITY than the competition if they are to keep up..

Note DX9 calls for FP24 (at minimum).. and the PP thing reduces the precision to FP16 (at minimum)
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Old 09-16-03, 05:20 PM   #71
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AFAIK it's 2 32bit PS units or 4 16bit units... but these are also used in the texturing architecture too so they are overworked and severely bottlenecked.
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Old 09-16-03, 05:21 PM   #72
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Also, nobody has told me anything short of the flaws of 4x2 vs 8x1 as to why their hardware is flawed in ps2.0.
How about less pixel shader units than R3x0 cards, and the fact that those units also have to deal with texturing operations? Then there's the register usage issues with NV3x, and the huge performance hit from using FP32 (and even FP16 isn't great). Writing an NV3x codepath with those issues in minid can help a little, but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd".
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Old 09-16-03, 05:34 PM   #73
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Originally posted by serAph
Also, ATi and I go waaaaay back. I shudder in horror every time I recall upon the performance of their pre 8xxx series cards.
I go back to about 96-7 with 'em myself, how far back do you go?
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Old 09-16-03, 08:36 PM   #74
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How about less pixel shader units than R3x0 cards, and the fact that those units also have to deal with texturing operations? Then there's the register usage issues with NV3x, and the huge performance hit from using FP32 (and even FP16 isn't great). Writing an NV3x codepath with those issues in minid can help a little, but as the saying goes "you can't polish a turd".
What is the performance hit of FP32 vs FP16 discounting the register use issue?
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Old 09-16-03, 08:41 PM   #75
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What is the performance hit of FP32 vs FP16 discounting the register use issue?
Unplayable vs. playable.
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