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Old 04-16-08, 12:29 PM   #109
NvFuchs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

@Pawels133:

Yup, this error doesn't sound good.
Please provide me with the output of glxinfo,
your xorg.conf, your xorg log and dmesg.

I'd recommend you use nvidia-bug-report.sh,
as it generates a file which provides me
with this and other informations.

You can gzip the file and upload it as an attachment.

@Kirugs:

Only the first one is 1000 runs,
but yes, the results are about the same as mine,
but for me ipp 1 is a little bit faster than 0.

Strange, as this is the same gpu and cpu,
but a R61 instead of a T61.
But I have NvAGP set to 1, works best for me with suspend.

Fuchs
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Old 04-17-08, 12:57 AM   #110
Kirurgs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

NvFuchs:
Yes, only first, coz I posted fastest (and what I use actually)! 100 tests were just to show that GC makes difference You know

Off.:
With 173.08 hibernate started to work, but I have failures with suspend, which is not good, bet this might be because I played a bit with xorg.conf, I'll try to reset this to "default" and then suspend/resume. But somehow I feel this is related to wine windows...
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Old 04-17-08, 09:04 AM   #111
pawels133
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Quote:
Yup, this error doesn't sound good.
Please provide me with the output of glxinfo,
your xorg.conf, your xorg log and dmesg.

I'd recommend you use nvidia-bug-report.sh,
as it generates a file which provides me
with this and other informations.
Oops, I've installed Archlinux already and nvidia-settings --glxinfo works fine now (with 169.12).
I did some testing (gtk-engines-qt, 169.12 this time from arch repo, default nvidia drivers settings):

gtkperf -c 1000

GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 15:07:09 2008

GtkEntry - time: 2.42
GtkComboBox - time: 58.42
GtkComboBoxEntry - time: 51.93
GtkSpinButton - time: 9.99
GtkProgressBar - time: 6.73
GtkToggleButton - time: 17.98
GtkCheckButton - time: 19.10
GtkRadioButton - time: 27.41
GtkTextView - Add text - time: 79.44
GtkTextView - Scroll - time: 46.14
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time: 9.13
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time: 11.72
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 24.82
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time: 4.18
---
Total time: 369.44

There's something very strange with my 2D:

http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?i...puusagexv2.png

PS. I've got GF6800 card. Sorry for littering here. Should I start a new thread?

@txf
Quote:
I would love to see your xrenderbenchmark results from intel in the entirety (I suspect they accelerate more operations) as I lost the results I had
Of course. As soon as my friend will deliver me Intel card. Sorry for late response.
Attached Files
File Type: txt Xorg.0.log.txt (19.4 KB, 164 views)
File Type: txt dmesg.txt (14.5 KB, 250 views)
File Type: txt nvidia-settings-glxinfo.txt (23.4 KB, 155 views)
File Type: txt xorg.txt (1.9 KB, 146 views)
__________________
Not everybody can smoke and drink... xd
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Old 04-17-08, 12:08 PM   #112
NvFuchs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawels133

gtkperf -c 1000

GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 15:07:09 2008

GtkEntry - time: 2.42
GtkComboBox - time: 58.42
GtkComboBoxEntry - time: 51.93
GtkSpinButton - time: 9.99
GtkProgressBar - time: 6.73
GtkToggleButton - time: 17.98
GtkCheckButton - time: 19.10
GtkRadioButton - time: 27.41
GtkTextView - Add text - time: 79.44
GtkTextView - Scroll - time: 46.14
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time: 9.13
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time: 11.72
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 24.82
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time: 4.18
---
Total time: 369.44
Still too slow in my opinion, mine is over 3 times faster.
But:

Quote:
PS. I've got GF6800 card. Sorry for littering here. Should I start a new thread?
Yes. Full problem description, full bug report,
as soon as I have time I'll look at it,
and maybe a nvidia guy or somebody else
already solves it in the meantime.

Fuchs
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Old 04-17-08, 09:47 PM   #113
shaundennie
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

I didn't notice anyone posting intel gtkperf number for comparison but, I just installed Ubuntu 8.04 on a friends laptop with an intel card that's about 2-3 years old. It's had 8.04 installed for about an hour and haven't touched any settings from the default:

From /var/log/Xorg.0.log
Code:
(II) intel(0): Integrated Graphics Chipset: Intel(R) 945GM
It's running the "intel" driver and it's a 1.6Ghz Core Duo (not Core 2).

Ran these with "gtkperf -a -c 100" a number a times and results were +/-1 sec. The surprising thing is that compiz makes a huge difference:

With Compiz and Human theme:
Code:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 20:13:51 2008

GtkEntry - time:  0.01
GtkComboBox - time:  1.94
GtkComboBoxEntry - time:  1.76
GtkSpinButton - time:  0.31
GtkProgressBar - time:  0.19
GtkToggleButton - time:  0.86
GtkCheckButton - time:  0.86
GtkRadioButton - time:  1.01
GtkTextView - Add text - time:  0.96
GtkTextView - Scroll - time:  0.46
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time:  0.88
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time:  1.79
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time:  2.34
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time:  0.19
 --- 
Total time: 13.56

Quitting..
Without compiz and Human theme:
Code:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 20:14:57 2008

GtkEntry - time:  0.01
GtkComboBox - time:  1.87
GtkComboBoxEntry - time:  1.53
GtkSpinButton - time:  0.26
GtkProgressBar - time:  0.16
GtkToggleButton - time:  0.77
GtkCheckButton - time:  0.74
GtkRadioButton - time:  0.88
GtkTextView - Add text - time:  0.89
GtkTextView - Scroll - time:  0.37
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time:  0.45
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time:  2.16
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 10.71
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time:  0.34
 --- 
Total time: 21.15

Quitting..
With Compiz and gtk-qt theme
Code:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 20:35:39 2008

GtkEntry - time:  0.00
GtkComboBox - time:  1.47
GtkComboBoxEntry - time:  1.27
GtkSpinButton - time:  0.23
GtkProgressBar - time:  0.18
GtkToggleButton - time:  0.37
GtkCheckButton - time:  0.43
GtkRadioButton - time:  0.57
GtkTextView - Add text - time:  0.85
GtkTextView - Scroll - time:  0.50
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time:  0.75
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time:  1.70
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time:  2.34
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time:  0.19
 --- 
Total time: 10.85

Quitting..
Without compiz and gtk-qt theme
Code:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 20:37:38 2008

GtkEntry - time:  0.00
GtkComboBox - time:  1.38
GtkComboBoxEntry - time:  1.11
GtkSpinButton - time:  0.19
GtkProgressBar - time:  0.12
GtkToggleButton - time:  0.34
GtkCheckButton - time:  0.35
GtkRadioButton - time:  0.48
GtkTextView - Add text - time:  0.81
GtkTextView - Scroll - time:  0.37
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time:  0.44
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time:  2.18
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 10.65
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time:  0.32
 --- 
Total time: 18.76

Quitting..
My XPS m1330 with an 8400M GS isn't here at the moment so I can't compare but, I think those numbers are fairly telling about how fairly new nvidia mobile cards stack up to last generation intel cards for 2D without using powermizer hacks...
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Old 04-17-08, 10:09 PM   #114
shaundennie
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

As a test, using the machine I previously mentioned, I changed the intel drivers config in Xorg.conf to:

Code:
Section "Device"
        Identifier      "Configured Video Device"
        Driver          "intel"
        Option          "AccelMethod"           "exa"
        Option          "ExaNoComposite"        "true"
        Option          "MigrationHeuristic"    "greedy"
EndSection
And times were on average 1-2 seconds faster. For example, the fastest time with compiz and gtk-qt:

Code:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Thu Apr 17 21:03:22 2008

GtkEntry - time:  0.00
GtkComboBox - time:  1.34
GtkComboBoxEntry - time:  1.11
GtkSpinButton - time:  0.21
GtkProgressBar - time:  0.15
GtkToggleButton - time:  0.34
GtkCheckButton - time:  0.39
GtkRadioButton - time:  0.50
GtkTextView - Add text - time:  0.76
GtkTextView - Scroll - time:  0.86
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time:  0.86
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time:  1.71
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time:  1.38
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time:  0.18
 --- 
Total time:  9.80

Quitting..
Again, intel 945GM.
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Old 04-19-08, 02:41 AM   #115
elclanrs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Hi!

I'm new into the forum.

I've been following this thread long ago cuz of the related performance problems with my 8800gts card.

After trying everything i could found on many forums nothing worked for me, still the ugly minimize/maximize and scroll problems.

This is the SOLUTION I found that worked for me:

(The instructions below are tested on Ubuntu Hardy "beta", my current OS)

1. Install a fresh and clean Ubuntu and update to the latest.
2. Download and install nvidia driver from official website (169.12)here
3. Disable other nvidia modules that could cause problems

open:
Quote:
sudo nano /etc/default/linux-restricted-modules-common
add:
Quote:
DISABLED_MODULES="nv nvidia_new"
4.Declare nvidia as driver in xorg.conf
open:
Quote:
sudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
add to the "Device" section:
Quote:
Driver "nvidia"
5. Restart X
6. Enable desktop effects on "Appearance" settings (you can install ccsm to modify some options)


By maintaining a simple xorg.conf and letting ubuntu "desktop effects" take control over compiz instead of "fusion-icon" worked like a charm for me.


Notes:

When I downloaded and activated fusion-icon is when the choppy animations and other stuff started.

When I tried to use nvidia-xconfig to write xorg.conf file I got problems too.

Scroll and tab problems in firefox still persists.


I don't know why this solution works if it's a driver problem (Powermizer or whatever)...
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Old 04-21-08, 11:09 PM   #116
laurencevde
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Fusion-icon starts compiz with a couple of options, which might have that effect...
We're now talking about 2 different problems here: slow compiz, and slow 2d.
The gf8400m GS is just slow. About the same speed as a gf6200, or a gf Ti4x00. If you thought that was a high-end chip, you were severely misinformed, but it should be fast enough for simple 3d and all 2d...
Anyways, first problem: it should be fast enough for compiz, except for the heavier effects(transparent cube, blurring, fire, etc. ) I've had a gf6200 doing just that. A couple of options might help though: disable vsync(I'd rather have a bit of tearing than a stuttering desktop), don't set the framerate too high, manually set the screen-refresh-rate in ccsm(nvidia's DynamicTwinview-function makes it report 50Hz) and use conservative options for all the plugins. Furthermore, you can configure the polling-frequency for powermizer in nvidia-settings(last page). Set that to 12ms or so.
I myself have been using Kwin4-compositing since kde4.0, which is stable, fast, and just got wobbly windows. Before that, I've used compiz for about a year, and could never really like it. It is still pretty meagre as a window-manager (I did upgrade my pc at the same time, so I can't really compare performance.)

second problem(slow 2d): even if nvidia doesn't say anything, doesn't mean they're not listening. I've never seen them really respond to 2d-performance-problems, but new drivers do tend to fix at least part of the problems(first 100-driver got fully-accelerated subpixel-rendering, they got xrandr-acceleration, 171 got glyph-cache,...). I myself am using kde4 on a gf8600, and as soon as it starts doing some real 2d-rendering-work(smooth-scrolling ,heavy scrolling, xrandr-ed animations, and basically anything non-static), it does eat my cpu/becomes slow, so yes, I do agree there's a problem there, but on the whole, kde4 is quite responsive, and getting better, so it's something I can live with, especially considering the alternatives. I guess this is a hard problem to tackle.

My gtk-perf-scores(-ac 1000), on gf8600gt with nvidia-drivers-171.06, InitialPixmapPlacement=2 and GlyphCache=1, on gentoo-64, with an athlon-64-4400+-proc:
Kwin-compositing on, gtk-qt with keramik theme:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Tue Apr 22 04:36:45 2008

GtkEntry - time: 0.80
GtkComboBox - time: 45.35
GtkComboBoxEntry - time: 41.10
GtkSpinButton - time: 7.17
GtkProgressBar - time: 6.01
GtkToggleButton - time: 10.76
GtkCheckButton - time: 10.94
GtkRadioButton - time: 14.41
GtkTextView - Add text - time: 47.81
GtkTextView - Scroll - time: 15.10
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time: 5.49
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time: 6.30
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 4.86
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time: 8.95
---
Total time: 225.05

Kwin-compositing off:
GtkPerf 0.40 - Starting testing: Tue Apr 22 04:41:54 2008

GtkEntry - time: 0.79
GtkComboBox - QObject: Do not delete object, 'unnamed', during its event handler!
time: 20.22
GtkComboBoxEntry - time: 18.37
GtkSpinButton - time: 2.43
GtkProgressBar - time: 1.79
GtkToggleButton - time: 5.23
GtkCheckButton - time: 5.54
GtkRadioButton - time: 6.86
GtkTextView - Add text - time: 48.38
GtkTextView - Scroll - time: 8.36
GtkDrawingArea - Lines - time: 2.48
GtkDrawingArea - Circles - time: 3.19
GtkDrawingArea - Text - time: 2.82
GtkDrawingArea - Pixbufs - time: 5.20
---
Total time: 131.67

So, kwin-compositing does halve my rendering-speed, which I also notice in opengl-apps, so I mostly run those on a different X-screen. I also had that with compiz on my old gf6200(compositing does speed up moving and switching windows though, and, if well implemented, can result in a general performance-increase, but not with nvidia...).
BTW: Phoronix is busy building an extensive linux-testing-suite/framework, which can be found on http://www.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php .
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Old 04-22-08, 08:12 AM   #117
Kirurgs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Code:
The gf8400m GS is just slow.
I have couple of words about this part...
But please keep in mind that at this point this is just to THINK from end-user point of view...

So back in a days when 3D started, amongst cards I had, was Voodoo Banshee, basically slower V2 with 2D.
Guess what, I played Forsaken, Quake2/3, Max Payne and really, it was not bad. Quake/MaxPayne had it's explosions, blood etc. going around which can be compared to "fire" in compiz for instance, then in forsaken there was that big bomb which created semi transparent explosion wave which can be compared to compiz "cube" thing...

That was what? Year 1999? Yes, it was when we were running on 100Mhz core and 133Mhz SDR 16Mb memory, P200MMX with 32Mb of memory and Windows98...

And 2D was good too, I don't really remember slowdowns, actually...

So now we are complaining that this is bad and that is bad with recent cards that has features, clock speeds, memory etc., basically n times powerful!

Think...

P.S. Yes, I know that now we have antialiased text and Quake is not quite directly comparable to compiz
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Old 04-22-08, 09:19 AM   #118
energyman76b
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

you can't compare that.

- This games were hand optimized assembler.

- You can't compare the 'for speed' optimized windows gui with X. X is known to be slow.
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Old 04-22-08, 09:26 AM   #119
Kirurgs
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Code:
This games were hand optimized assembler.
That's about Wolfenstein 3D, Quake/Max is C...
X - slow, yes, and that's part of why this topic exists at all...
Slow GUI is what affects people, people tend to be picky about spent $ and slow GUI, who wants to work with slow GUI... It's not just nVidias fault, but not many understand that and never will... Video HW is what does output to screen, guess what is blamed first when encounter slowness
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Old 04-22-08, 10:23 AM   #120
energyman76b
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Default Re: 8400M GS : Low performences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirurgs
Code:
This games were hand optimized assembler.
That's about Wolfenstein 3D, Quake/Max is C...
X - slow, yes, and that's part of why this topic exists at all...
No.

X is because of its architecture, much slower than the in-kernel, optimized windows gui.

Maybe you remember Windows NT 3.5? When MS put the GUI into userspace? With NT4 it was back in the kernel - because it was so slow. And where does X reside? Oh, yeah, userspace...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirurgs
Slow GUI is what affects people, people tend to be picky about spent $ and slow GUI, who wants to work with slow GUI... It's not just nVidias fault, but not many understand that and never will... Video HW is what does output to screen, guess what is blamed first when encounter slowness
X will never be as fast as the windows gui - not without some big changes. And one reason why intel 'graphics' are faster is that the same people writing the drivers are also responsible for 2d stuff. So of course intel is faster ... X is written for them ..

btw, before the 'we need specs' stuff starts again, AFAIK intel has not released specs.,,,
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