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Old 04-14-03, 11:15 PM   #25
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Unhappy 2 cents...

The reason I have for continuing to be dissapointed with it, even if the image quality is fine... is that all these cheats and work arounds for a benchmark, it is that much time taken away from optimising for games... and damn, if they have to take every freaking game and 'optimise' for each... those drivers are going to get really bloated... and they'll always be playing catch up. They really need to make the drivers work better over the broad range of all applications.

Dear lord, think about it... if they go through game after game and say "this only needs int12... we'll use fp16 on this... oh that needs fp32" for every effect, it is just rediculous.
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Old 04-14-03, 11:29 PM   #26
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im going to cancel the rasterizer and just have it run when im off to sleep,...i want to get some gaming in....it should be done when i wake up in the morning, so i will have the pics posted up tomorrow
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Old 04-15-03, 05:48 AM   #27
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i was planning on using MNG...

but i just realized the reference 5800 pic is a GIF, so could someone with a 5800 take a PNG screen cap of frame 800 in 3dmark03's nature...

the rasterizer is still going at it, just a few more HOURS to go
uh...the reference pic is not a gif, it's a jpg
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Old 04-15-03, 06:24 AM   #28
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Typical, the thread turns into an NVidia is cheating, thread.

Thing is, there isn't ONE sinple user here that can prove Nvidia are cheating.
And isn't the web a wonderful place, where any user can post complete BS, and everyone else takes that as the gospel truth.

And how exactly, is this affecting Radeon users ?

Comeon, HOW is this affecting you, and in what way ?

Because all I see are a bunch of users that are hell bent on spending idle time slagging Nvidia at every chance. Pretty sad, don't you think ?

And how is this supposed "Cheating", going to affect ANY game this year, and possibly even next year ?

And I'll put ANY money on the fact that there won't be ONE single DX9 game this year, and maybe even next year.

And when a DX9 games does eventually show up, who will still even own ANY of today's cards ?

I think a lot of people need to grow up, get out more and even get laid.
At the end of the day, who gives a flying f*ck whether FP16 or FP32 is used ? Because it won't really matter until we see games that show this up.
Feel free to flame, because I really don't give a damn. I HAVE a life outside of videocards
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Old 04-15-03, 06:42 AM   #29
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Exactley, first they were cheating because the nature demo IQ was a bit dodgy looking. Now the image quality looks fine people are still saying they are cheating because the 3dmark is just as good and thats what nvidia are like . Im just wondering after the WHQL driver is released what more people will want to convince them nvidia are back on track??
I imagine this one will be heard about for a long time, in the same way as the ATi 'Quack' issue is still dragged up even now. Mud tends to stick, and once a company gains a reputation for doing this kind of thing it takes a long time to shake it.
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Old 04-15-03, 06:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fusion
Thing is, there isn't ONE sinple user here that can prove Nvidia are cheating.
And isn't the web a wonderful place, where any user can post complete BS, and everyone else takes that as the gospel truth.
I think there's been more than enough evidence posted around the Internet to prove that nVidia did something to their drivers specifically for 3DMark2003.

nVidia aren't exactly likely to come out with a statement saying 'yes, we cheat in benchmarks' are they?
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Old 04-15-03, 07:00 AM   #31
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Personally id love a driver option that allowed you to choose the precision used or let it be application controlled. NVIDIA's idea (or was that a rumour also) of having it use FP16 unless it specifically requests FP32 seems a fair one. After all if a scene looks the same with FP16/32 why not use FP16 and have it run faster?

Quote:
I imagine this one will be heard about for a long time, in the same way as the ATi 'Quack' issue is still dragged up even now. Mud tends to stick, and once a company gains a reputation for doing this kind of thing it takes a long time to shake it.
Well i think what they did with the drivers was, while not the best thing in the world, not the worst either. They must have realised that while the results of 3dmark03 were not a ‘fair’ representation of the cards performance that people are still going to take notice of it. Because after all they are coming from the position of having a card give a lower score in it so of course they are going to say its bad. The driver was a nice wakeup call to prove their point. They were open about it too – although they have not said what they have done. I’m sure they will admit whatever there is to admit when they have some WHQL sorted.
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Old 04-15-03, 07:03 AM   #32
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Originally posted by RobHague
Personally id love a driver option that allowed you to choose the precision used or let it be application controlled. NVIDIA's idea (or was that a rumour also) of having it use FP16 unless it specifically requests FP32 seems a fair one. After all if a scene looks the same with FP16/32 why not use FP16 and have it run faster?
Not a bad idea... I wonder if an option like that would also prevent drivers gaining WHQL certification though?
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Old 04-15-03, 07:09 AM   #33
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True maybe

Can the R300/350 just do FP24 btw? No support for FP16? Because if thats true it seems a little backwards - using FP24 all the way when something would look no different and perform better with FP16.
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Old 04-15-03, 07:14 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobHague
True maybe

Can the R300/350 just do FP24 btw? No support for FP16? Because if thats true it seems a little backwards - using FP24 all the way when something would look no different and perform better with FP16.
Actually from an engineering stand point is a great way to save on complexity. If you have one pipe thats FP24 all the time only, then its easier to manage that a FP16/32 or having seperate pipes. Its a comprimise and not a bad one at that.
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Old 04-15-03, 07:21 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbirney
Actually from an engineering stand point is a great way to save on complexity. If you have one pipe thats FP24 all the time only, then its easier to manage that a FP16/32 or having seperate pipes. Its a comprimise and not a bad one at that.
Well, you know, I actually think the NV30 is really only FP32 - no FP16 calculations supported.
The only difference is temporary registers who can be either FP16 or FP32, and register usage is very important on the NV3x ( the least, the better )

So, there's really 4 pipelines who can do 1 FP32 op and 2 FX12 ops in parallel - but it can't do texturing at the same time as the FP32 op.


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Old 04-15-03, 07:28 AM   #36
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Originally posted by Hanners
I think there's been more than enough evidence posted around the Internet to prove that nVidia did something to their drivers specifically for 3DMark2003.

nVidia aren't exactly likely to come out with a statement saying 'yes, we cheat in benchmarks' are they?
Cheating is fixing the program to give a value that your equipment cannot produce, ie the guy who gets 20 000 3dmarks because he hacked a file.

Running the program in a normal manner and producing a value is not cheating, it is the wrong word to use.

Optimised for speed at the expense of quality is the right group of words.

Futuremark stopped this though as nvidia spat the dummy earlier with them, so they spat back
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