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Old 12-10-07, 06:35 PM   #49
npras42
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

But again how is that any different to a DVD that is upscaled? If its wrong for the film industry to do it, then why is it okay for the games industry?

Also, I would agree that Bungie has done nothing wrong (other than release a fairly mediocre game lol), it is MS that put those labels on the box. Its not just Halo 3 either it is all X360 games and possibly all PS3 games as well (I haven't checked any so I don't know).
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Old 12-10-07, 06:40 PM   #50
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

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Originally Posted by ViN86
while i agree that it is misleading, Bungie has done nothing wrong.
I disagree. If they're misleading consumers, then that is wrong. Same goes for the movie industry if they're doing this. Do I think it's a big deal in this case? No. But that doesn't make it right.

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the fact remains, that if you run your 360 at 720p/1080i/1080p, the game works and the displayed image is at that resolution. the matter of how they get to this resolution does not matter. the game is displayed at 720p/1080i/1080p regardless. sure, some pixels may be repeated, but the image is still HD.
No, it's not. While it may be an exaggeration, by this logic I could say that the Wii is HD when I scale it up to 720P. Sure, some pixels are repeated, but the final image is still HD. Again, given that most people seem to be happy with Halo 3's graphics I don't think it's a big deal here, but at the same time I can understand why people would be upset. Where do you draw the line? Is 600P still HD? 550P? Pretty sure 480P isn't. This whole claiming 720P when the game doesn't run in it sets a bad precedent (or maybe the idiot marketers in the movie industry already did that...either way I blame it on somebody's marketing department).
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Old 12-10-07, 06:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

@nemecb: I know your post wasn't directed at me but I just wanted to make clear that I'm not saying that the film industry does employ this practice of labelling non-HD films with 720p or greater labels. I'm just saying if they did this then there would be an uproar but for some reason there is no such uproar when games companies are doing it.

As you said most people are happy with Halo 3's graphics so it isn't such a huge deal but it does set a bad precedent. Its only a matter of time before they start making games rendered in 480p and selling them as "HD".
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Old 12-10-07, 06:51 PM   #52
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemecb
I disagree. If they're misleading consumers, then that is wrong. Same goes for the movie industry if they're doing this. Do I think it's a big deal in this case? No. But that doesn't make it right.


No, it's not. While it may be an exaggeration, by this logic I could say that the Wii is HD when I scale it up to 720P. Sure, some pixels are repeated, but the final image is still HD. Again, given that most people seem to be happy with Halo 3's graphics I don't think it's a big deal here, but at the same time I can understand why people would be upset. Where do you draw the line? Is 600P still HD? 550P? Pretty sure 480P isn't. This whole claiming 720P when the game doesn't run in it sets a bad precedent (or maybe the idiot marketers in the movie industry already did that...either way I blame it on somebody's marketing department).
i agree the line needs to be drawn somewhere, but looking at the back of the game, all i see is "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p". i dont see it say that 1080 horizontal lines are rendered.

i know it's a technicality, but this is a legal case, and technicalities make or break the case. do i think it's wrong that they dont actually render what are considered HD images? hell yes i do, but i dont think there is any way that they can lose this lawsuit.
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Old 12-10-07, 06:53 PM   #53
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

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Originally Posted by npras42
@nemecb: I know your post wasn't directed at me but I just wanted to make clear that I'm not saying that the film industry does employ this practice of labelling non-HD films with 720p or greater labels. I'm just saying if they did this then there would be an uproar but for some reason there is no such uproar when games companies are doing it.

As you said most people are happy with Halo 3's graphics so it isn't such a huge deal but it does set a bad precedent. Its only a matter of time before they start making games rendered in 480p and selling them as "HD".
no, because the game would look like an SDTV image and no one would buy it. you can get away with this at 650 lines or more. but let's be honest, if you make games at 480 lines, they will look like ****.
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Old 12-10-07, 06:59 PM   #54
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86
no, because the game would look like an SDTV image and no one would buy it. you can get away with this at 650 lines or more. but let's be honest, if you make games at 480 lines, they will look like ****.
But this is what I mean, they are trying to get away with it aren't they. 480p to 720p is a stretch (no pun intended) but I think I heard that PGR3 was rendered in 600p. How much can they 'get away with'? They shouldn't be allowed to get away with anything like that.
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Old 12-10-07, 07:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by npras42
@nemecb: I know your post wasn't directed at me but I just wanted to make clear that I'm not saying that the film industry does employ this practice of labelling non-HD films with 720p or greater labels. I'm just saying if they did this then there would be an uproar but for some reason there is no such uproar when games companies are doing it.

As you said most people are happy with Halo 3's graphics so it isn't such a huge deal but it does set a bad precedent. Its only a matter of time before they start making games rendered in 480p and selling them as "HD".
Yeah, that was actually relating to Spoudazo's post about movies running at a lower resolution. I don't know for sure whether that's true or not.

ViN86: I agree that they probably don't have a prayer of winning the suit, and I think it's a bit frivolous so I'm not really sad about that. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing somebody get slapped on the wrist for misleading packaging. I know it's not really an issue for us, but how many people buy games just looking at the box art? They see "HD" listed as the resolution and they think "This must look good!" and then get home to discover that it's lower res scaled up and looks like crap.

Actually, looking at the link I posted earlier, there are some games running at <600P that are presumably marketed as 720P. That's really pushing it. Of course suing them wouldn't have grabbed headlines.

Meh, this is why I didn't go into marketing. I don't want to be a professional liar.
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Old 12-10-07, 07:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by npras42
But this is what I mean, they are trying to get away with it aren't they. 480p to 720p is a stretch (no pun intended) but I think I heard that PGR3 was rendered in 600p. How much can they 'get away with'? They shouldn't be allowed to get away with anything like that.
it's a catch 22.

if you increase resolution you lower framerate (the reason they lower resolution to begin with). in which case they remove some of the eye candy in the game. this may produce lower IQ.

if you decrease resolution slightly you can leave the eye candy in, increase IQ, and increase framerate. however, some of this increased IQ is lost to the lower resolution.

my point is not "how much can they get away with", it's the fact that they can get away with at these resolutions. also, who cares how much they can get away with? as long as the game looks good i dont care if it's actually 661p or 626p... it doesnt matter as long as the game looks good and runs at a good framerate. for example CoD4 looks awesome. if i found out it was actually rendered at 550p, i wouldnt care in the least. as a matter of fact id tip my hat to them for producing such a great looking game at an inferior resolution.
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Old 12-10-07, 07:08 PM   #57
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by nemecb
Yeah, that was actually relating to Spoudazo's post about movies running at a lower resolution. I don't know for sure whether that's true or not.

ViN86: I agree that they probably don't have a prayer of winning the suit, and I think it's a bit frivolous so I'm not really sad about that. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing somebody get slapped on the wrist for misleading packaging. I know it's not really an issue for us, but how many people buy games just looking at the box art? They see "HD" listed as the resolution and they think "This must look good!" and then get home to discover that it's lower res scaled up and looks like crap.

Actually, looking at the link I posted earlier, there are some games running at <600P that are presumably marketed as 720P. That's really pushing it. Of course suing them wouldn't have grabbed headlines.

Meh, this is why I didn't go into marketing. I don't want to be a professional liar.
this is why you actually research or rent games before purchasing them

anyone foolish enough to assume that HD means the game looks good should forfeit their $60 anyways (im jk lol)
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Old 12-10-07, 07:25 PM   #58
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViN86
it's a catch 22.

if you increase resolution you lower framerate (the reason they lower resolution to begin with). in which case they remove some of the eye candy in the game. this may produce lower IQ.

if you decrease resolution slightly you can leave the eye candy in, increase IQ, and increase framerate. however, some of this increased IQ is lost to the lower resolution.

my point is not "how much can they get away with", it's the fact that they can get away with at these resolutions. also, who cares how much they can get away with? as long as the game looks good i dont care if it's actually 661p or 626p... it doesnt matter as long as the game looks good and runs at a good framerate. for example CoD4 looks awesome. if i found out it was actually rendered at 550p, i wouldnt care in the least. as a matter of fact id tip my hat to them for producing such a great looking game at an inferior resolution.
You are of course right. It doesn't matter what res the game is rendered in if it looks good, however, I would bet that CoD4 is not actually rendered in anything much less than 720p. On the other hand, two other games that I have experience of, Halo 3 and PGR3 both run at significantly less than 720p and it is very much apparent in the amount of jagginess visible.

Its all well and good saying if CoD4 ran at less than 720p then it makes no difference, but truthfully we can be pretty sure that it doesn't and the results are clearly visible. That doesn't mean that all native 720p games look better though.
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Old 12-10-07, 07:28 PM   #59
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

The real question is WHO CARES!? Just play the game and shut up.

Damn I hate gamers. They most pathetic class of humans. Gaming, the easiest hobby in the world seems to require 60 IQ points, the knowledge of only 6 words in the English language and a propensity for always being unhappy.

Call me a silly b!tch but shouldn't your hobby make you happy?
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Old 12-10-07, 07:31 PM   #60
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Default Re: Class Action Connect offers lawsuit against Bungie for Halo3's missing pixels

PS3 fans make me laugh. Even if Bungie has to pay 1 gajillion dollars in damages to all the poor HD gamers out there, the PS3 is still in last place suckaz
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