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Old 01-28-08, 03:15 AM   #1
martini
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Default nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

hi nvidia-team,

isn't it possible to offer a 'direct 3d' interface in linux to make it easier for wine to run direct 3d applications without the conversion to opengl commands?

it's just an idea to support windows games better in linux environment because one of the main problems is usually the failure of the direct3d emulation support under linux.

greez,
martin
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Old 01-28-08, 03:23 AM   #2
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

M$ wouldn't agree with this for sure!
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Old 01-28-08, 08:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

It is better to create Direct3d to OpenGL wrapper. It is easier to maintain and GPU designers can focus on improving OpenGL instead of splitting their workforce on 2 APIs. Another issue with Direct3D on Linux is M$ and copyrights/patents.

We should have on Linux only good APIs and port only things worth porting.
Present Directx was abadoned in M$ Vista in favour of Directx10 : D3d9 is going to be dropped like it happened with HW directsound which is full software emulated in Vista.

We have great OpenGL and OpenAL. Good, open, long term solutions.
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Old 01-29-08, 02:00 AM   #4
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

I have no idea how technically difficult this would be, but what would be really great IMHO is an NVIDIA driver that can be installed into a virtual machine like QEMU, which passes through to the NVIDIA driver on the host machine. Ideally this would work with a Linux host and a Windows client, for the gamers.
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Old 01-29-08, 05:59 AM   #5
martini
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

the code of the driver source is afaik around 90% the same between linux and windows. thus it shouldnt be a big problem to offer a direct 3d api to linux users to support the wine emulation of games.
i never programmed direct 3d before, so that's just theoretically.

every time i talk to windows users and ask them 'why dont u use linux' the answer is always 'i want to play my games'. thus this would be a great improvement for wine and for the expansion of the linux user community by supporting the newest direct3d games.
the wrapper can be also used as an alternative solution.

the conversion of direct3d commands to opengl commands usually takes much more time and isn't as accurate as a direct implementation of the api. e.g. the shaders cannot be translated directly and are usually optimized in the language where they were developed in, even if many games nowadays use the nv shading language.

@zbiggy: the direct3d api is already implemented under windows. so it's not necessary to do more effort in developing a wrapper (only as an alternative).

ps: because opengl 2 is stucked in the old api i'm looking forward to opengl 3 and the hopefully fast development of nvidia linux drivers with opengl 3 spec implementation ))
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Old 01-29-08, 10:21 AM   #6
Tub
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

this suggestion comes up now and then, mostly from people with few knowledge about development, and it's turned down every single time.
Instead of creating a directX->opengl wrapper once, each driver developer would need to provide the directX API - and that's much more work in the end. And it wouldn't even work better.

here's the last discussion on wine-devel:
http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine...er/060749.html
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Old 01-31-08, 07:32 AM   #7
martini
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

hi tub,

thanx for the link. the idea with the opengl extensions (see link) sounds really much better than a complete api implementation of direct3d on driver level.

so i'm finished with this thread and hope that nvidia implements all the necessary extensions if it works with wine and the open source graphic drivers

ciao,
martin
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Old 01-31-08, 09:05 PM   #8
zbiggy
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Default Re: nvidia linux drivers + direct 3d

Quote:
Originally Posted by martini
the code of the driver source is afaik around 90% the same between linux and windows. thus it shouldnt be a big problem to offer a direct 3d api to linux users to support the wine emulation of games.
i never programmed direct 3d before, so that's just theoretically.

every time i talk to windows users and ask them 'why dont u use linux' the answer is always 'i want to play my games'. thus this would be a great improvement for wine and for the expansion of the linux user community by supporting the newest direct3d games.
the wrapper can be also used as an alternative solution.

the conversion of direct3d commands to opengl commands usually takes much more time and isn't as accurate as a direct implementation of the api. e.g. the shaders cannot be translated directly and are usually optimized in the language where they were developed in, even if many games nowadays use the nv shading language.

@zbiggy: the direct3d api is already implemented under windows. so it's not necessary to do more effort in developing a wrapper (only as an alternative).

ps: because opengl 2 is stucked in the old api i'm looking forward to opengl 3 and the hopefully fast development of nvidia linux drivers with opengl 3 spec implementation ))
When I look at missing h.264, purevideo, fast 2D acceleration I think this sharing of code between Linux and Win is just marketing lie of Nvidia. Of course since 169 driver release there is huge improvement in 2D acceleration but if idea of sharing code was true we could have all these features already.

I prefer Linux as small elite workspace. Thanks to this discussion on Internet have high quality, Linux software is not bloatware (just look at Windows drivers from HP, Creative or Nvidia: how big and annoying toys they are, how much unneeded stuff goes to autostart). In Linux we have hardware from these companies too but drivers are professional: usually open (hplip driver from HP), fast and small. There is no VISTA effect (Viruses Intruders Spyware Trojans Adware) on Linux so my computer is still nice and open to the world (no antivirus or firewall which again slowdowns PC -just closed ports) and I can run what I want without checking. My distro offers me packets which were checked before by professionals and included in distro.

For games I have windows - if something breaks I format it and install again. For work and Internet journeys, e-banking I use safe Linux (and some games with Linux native support too). Most people use Lin and Win this way - this is great deal. That is why people still use Linux and nobody cares about Linux market share and lack of Direct3D on Linux. We simply know that bigger market share will flood Linux with junk present on Windows. Nobody wants this so Linux is kept as 2nd most popular OS "for IT elite and hackers".

You know, sometimes it is great to be small.
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