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Old 02-24-08, 01:57 AM   #85
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by OldOfEvil
Unless the nerf involved removing Fel Hunters, Curse of Tongues and Fear I don't see how this would effect Warlock dominance over Mages, not that a mage can't beat a lock (esp with free iceblock) just that most of them really suck and can't see past the lust for big crits and thus play stupid.
Lifetap just got the **** nerfed out of it.

It now scales on a percentage basis. You lose 20% of your maximum health and get 20% of your current mana pool back.

So if you are at 10000/10000 health and have 1000/9000 mana and use lifetap, you'll lose 2000 health and only get back 200 mana. Basically bye-bye to warlocks endless mana pools.

Fear (iceblock/trinket ftw), curse of tounges (remove curse ftw), and a fel hunter (water elemental) I can deal with. What I frustrates me is the near endless mana pools that locks have. They can simply outlast me unless I kill them fast. Now that isn't going to happen.
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Old 02-24-08, 09:20 AM   #86
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Lifetap just got the **** nerfed out of it.

It now scales on a percentage basis. You lose 20% of your maximum health and get 20% of your current mana pool back.

So if you are at 10000/10000 health and have 1000/9000 mana and use lifetap, you'll lose 2000 health and only get back 200 mana. Basically bye-bye to warlocks endless mana pools.

Fear (iceblock/trinket ftw), curse of tounges (remove curse ftw), and a fel hunter (water elemental) I can deal with. What I frustrates me is the near endless mana pools that locks have. They can simply outlast me unless I kill them fast. Now that isn't going to happen.

A Lock fighting a Mage doesn't need to life tap. If he does something is wrong with the Lock. The Life Tap nerf, if it goes live, will be annoying sure. But its going to effect raids (and Arena, I guess) more than anything else. Way to cheer to for lowering the efficiency of the group.
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Old 02-24-08, 11:03 AM   #87
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by OldOfEvil
A Lock fighting a Mage doesn't need to life tap. If he does something is wrong with the Lock. The Life Tap nerf, if it goes live, will be annoying sure. But its going to effect raids (and Arena, I guess) more than anything else. Way to cheer to for lowering the efficiency of the group.
Well remember that not all of these changes are for PVP. I am pretty sure the lifebloom nerf for example was due to this making the game too easy in certain PVE cases, I don't think it will affect PVP a whole lot. I haven't used lifebloom in PVP yet, but looking at the way it heals you, I think resto druids already depend on keeping 3 HoT's up in e.g. arena (keep their health up rather than allow e.g. a crit to wipe them out, which doesn't happen in PVE) rather than just rely on swiftmend like they do in PVE, so a slight nerf to one of them wouldn't matter much.

Also the nerf doesn't effect feral and balance druids as much as it effects resto druids, so they haven't really lost any PVP edge (assuming my understanding of the way wow handles the math, their multiplier is already low, so lowering the coefficient doesn't change much.)

I don't play lock, but I think it is possible that this is to make PVE more challenging for them given that their dots can now do more damage to more mobs. Rather than make them this powerhouse that can destroy anything with their infinite mana, they now have to try to deal damage more efficiently.
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Old 02-24-08, 04:09 PM   #88
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
I'd go for the shadowcraft but its too god damned hard to find groups that don't have rogues who complain about you needing on that stuff. (why did blizzard have to make a rogue quest for that? *sigh* I so hate doing instances with rogues in the group for so many reasons beyond competing for armor though...) Either way though, the pre-bc druid armor really sucks and only accommodates caster druids, with the exception of a few of the set bonuses.

Regardless of what is practical to obtain at my level though, I am saving my pvp honor points for 70.
Why do you hate doing instances with rogues?
Rogues offer unlimited amounts of big dps to an instance, they do not rely on mana every 2 secs like some other classas do.
Quite often in an in stance my rogue (combat mace) will top the dps, and therefore my guild are always happy to have me with them.

They stealth and sap for crowd control.
They can be quite important in end game instances actually.
But, maybe you have had some bad experiences.....just like all classes there are good and bad players though...and I have seen plenty of bad rogues, people start them thinking they are an easy class that will lvl fast.

Not really the case.

Personally, I dont have a problem with druids needing the same gear as a rogue, and I have never had any problems with this in instances anyway. At the end of the day, it comes down to a need roll.
And if your going for PVP gear (the welfare epics) then it shouldnt really matter anyway
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Old 02-24-08, 05:43 PM   #89
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

having a skilled rogue + a dps shammy = heaven to any instance party.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:01 PM   #90
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by killahsin
having a skilled rogue + a dps shammy = heaven to any instance party.
This was part of an entry taken from the blog of a very experienced and well skilled rogue that I have contact with.....

"Iíve also seen first hand that many encounters really struggle without rogues. For example, last night, we went into Tempest Keep, and at High Astromancer Solarian the rogues were all killed as the healers struggled with the arcane missiles for some reason. All the rest of the raid was alive, but the fight failed because the interrupts on the priests the boss summoned were bad. This encounter, and many many like it need the control of a rogue.

Iíve also noticed that raids where a shadow priest is not returning mana to the casters (mages and locks) really causes them trouble now, delivering an advantage to rogues again. Iíve also found that the BEST melee party is a team of 5 players with a melee shaman dropping windfury, a mortal strike warrior and three rogues. This delivers the most dps from a melee team (certainly at my level) If you are building raid teams, then thatís my advice! If you want to take 2 rogues, then replace one with a feral druid, or a (really good) retribution paladin"
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Old 02-24-08, 06:10 PM   #91
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by Dvahlish
Why do you hate doing instances with rogues?
Rogues offer unlimited amounts of big dps to an instance, they do not rely on mana every 2 secs like some other classas do.
Quite often in an in stance my rogue (combat mace) will top the dps, and therefore my guild are always happy to have me with them.
Not all rogues, but many of them just piss me off. For example in BRD there were those little squads of dwarves that you have to take out individually, I told the group to stand back and let me pull, most of them did except the rogue. I had this rogue who kept insisting on walking up there with me anyways, and half of the time he would bring one pat group back with him while I was trying to pull a different group.

Rogues in PUG's do this kind of crap all the damn time. Most of them think they are these badasses that can take out every mob quickly and make my tanking job difficult by pulling agro before I can, and they find out the hard way that they make a horrible tank, and after they die the mobs scatter making my job a hell of a lot more difficult. That, and rogues roll on the same gear I do.

A proper rogue on the other hand, is good, but they are damn hard to find. My guild has a few good ones, but they aren't my level so I can't run instances with them.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:18 PM   #92
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
Not all rogues, but many of them just piss me off. For example in BRD there were those little squads of dwarves that you have to take out individually, I told the group to stand back and let me pull, most of them did except the rogue. I had this rogue who kept insisting on walking up there with me anyways, and half of the time he would bring one pat group back with him while I was trying to pull a different group.

Rogues in PUG's do this kind of crap all the damn time. Most of them think they are these badasses that can take out every mob quickly and make my tanking job difficult by pulling agro before I can, and they find out the hard way that they make a horrible tank, and after they die the mobs scatter making my job a hell of a lot more difficult. That, and rogues roll on the same gear I do.

A proper rogue on the other hand, is good, but they are damn hard to find.
Agreed.
There are a lot of rogues out there that think they are the OT.
The best thing a good rogue can learn, is thier place in an instance.
Sounds like the guy just didnt have a clue.
By lvl 70, you see less and less of this.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:32 PM   #93
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

I also hate the idea that it is somehow immoral for a feral druid to need roll on shadowcraft armor if there's a rogue in the group. Thats like the only non-BC gear that I can heavily benefit from at my level.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:35 PM   #94
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
I also hate the idea that it is somehow immoral for a feral druid to need roll on shadowcraft armor if there's a rogue in the group. Thats like the only non-BC gear that I can heavily benefit from at my level.
Maybe thats just your experiences because I certainly have never seen that attitude arise....maybe I have been lucky.

Rogues are very aware of druids needs....and vice versa.
Its always very fairly left up to a need roll in my opinion.
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Old 02-24-08, 09:42 PM   #95
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

BTW, how much work does it take to get the season 3 arena gear anyways? Can you just play like once or twice a week to maintain a certain rating in order to get points?

I don't particularly care for the arena. The rules favor classes and professions that I don't particularly care to play - if they balanced it a bit more then maybe I'd be interested - however I am not going to roll a character that I won't ever feel like playing outside of the arena, if I want that kind of game I'll play an FPS where I don't have to spend hours upon hours and days upon days of making my character just for some highly restricted combat that only lasts minutes at a time.

However I would be willing to play it just enough to get two pieces from the S3 set, namely the gloves and the headgear.
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Old 02-24-08, 09:44 PM   #96
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Default Re: Druids: the end game

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Originally Posted by AlphaWolf_HK
I don't play lock, but I think it is possible that this is to make PVE more challenging for them given that their dots can now do more damage to more mobs. Rather than make them this powerhouse that can destroy anything with their infinite mana, they now have to try to deal damage more efficiently.
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