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Old 04-11-08, 09:50 PM   #13
txf
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo.init
what U all doing..?

Nvidia has been the number one choice for Linux users since... since... forever! and Ive been using it since 2001 (Linux/nvidia), never have I resorted to the excuse *blame it on nvidia* because once one look at the other options... nuthin'


Ohh, You are using beta software..? Like compiz..? Well, then you have to understand that alpha/beta software isn't for everybody... and above all not for you...
sure you could try blaming the users but I have valid reasons...

try kde 4 or try running some render benchmarks. Compare those to crappy 2year old intel igp's...intel igps win.

I'm not saying nvidia's drivers are crappy, just some parts. I've seldom had stability problems and in 3d there is no dispute...nvidia chips have much more raw power, but for other things that matter like desktop performance, they seriously suck. I've tried several different distributions, and unfortunately the results are the same.

Unfortunately compiz used to run fine on my old laptop with a 6200m but now I have a 8600m gt and it feels worse (which could be because of powermizer...there should be a solution for this eventually and it is getting better). I used to be perfectly happy with 6200 but unfortunately the drivers aren't keeping up with desktop requirements. Either way I don't use composite much anymore except when testing drivers.

The fact that an identical version of kde4 built for windows is fine, but in linux it is not points at 3 culprits:

X, Qt or nvidia driver

to further narrow it down, running kde4 with xephyr runs kde4 faster (drawing speed) seems to indicate there is a problem with render acceleration which is either in nvidia or X. Nvidia has a different render acceleration to intel drivers so that indicates that the culprit is probably the nvidia driver (could still be in x?)

I might be missing a lot, so please someone correct me or possibly enlighten me as to possible reasons for the slowness, thank you very much

wrt this release with a quick test, have also found it to be slower than the preceeding one (171.06)
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Old 04-12-08, 01:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo.init
what U all doing..?

Nvidia has been the number one choice for Linux users since... since... forever! and Ive been using it since 2001 (Linux/nvidia), never have I resorted to the excuse *blame it on nvidia* because once one look at the other options... nuthin'

I think it's a user- or hardware problem... I've used nVIDIA and Linux for years and never had any of your problems, fact is that I build computers and install Linux for customers that feel like testing something better...

Ohh, You are using beta software..? Like compiz..? Well, then you have to understand that alpha/beta software isn't for everybody... and above all not for you...

this is a good tip for many people out there...

Section "Extensions"
Option "Composite" "Disable"
EndSection
Having option composite enabled means that I'm using compzi? LOL I know that's definitely nvidia problem (why everything is good even on crappy xp?). I'm using this crap for years too. It's no matter that I'm using alpha, beta or stable release always the same. So why are you commenting here if above problems don't apply to you?
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Old 04-12-08, 02:30 AM   #15
_john_i_
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

It's really sad that my old Geforce 3 is nice and fast, but my new 8600gt is so slow in 2D mode.

It is so bad that I just completely quit using the standard X server, and run my desktop under XGL. Definitely not an ideal solution, but everything is nice and smooth like it should be.

For games I just wrap them with a script to start a second X server to run them.
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Old 04-12-08, 02:58 AM   #16
gbil
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Can you please keep the off-topic posts in another thread?

I'm sick of the current situation in the boards. Someone reports a finding and then hell is released:
"Don't use Composite"
"Nvidia give us open source drivers"
"This is beta"
"Nvidia Sucks"
etc etc etc

Almost nothing on topic at all.
I know that moderators can't keep all the trash away but at least give out some warnings.
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Old 04-12-08, 03:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

There is certainly a problem with the 17* drivers still. Without the glyphcache enabled, scrolling a large mailbox in evolution is almost impossible. Using mouse wheel scrolling and doing a large scroll down takes several seconds in the 17* drivers. It's smooth as could be in the 169.12 driver. Also, turning on glyphcache on with my 8400M GS causes some scrolling operations to be much faster but makes compiz animations noticeably choppy (this is with the GPU pegged at max powermizer level 2).

I'm actually running Ubuntu 8.04 with a custom 2.6.22 kernel built with the ck patches, the nvidia 169.12 driver and scripts to peg the GPU at max power. Performance is absolutely outstanding with this setup so, I may just call it quits and leave my machine setup like this until it dies in a few years. Every time I deviate even slightly from this config I find the machine slow and frustrating to use.
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Old 04-12-08, 05:26 AM   #18
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Smile Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

KDE 4 isn't a good example to prove the drivers speed. At my System KDE4 is very unstable and changed very hard form 4.0.0 to 4.0.3. It's getting better but is slow anyway.
But to disable Composite isn't a solution. With this approach I could use the nv driver and be happy. It's a GF 8800 it is a little annoying to disable all that stuff because I don't want to let my CPU do it all cause I have that GFX Card.
I can live without it but I simply don't want it.
The 169 Series Driver did lock my System without composite or compiz. The previous releases did lockups if I changed to terminal. I had to compile my kernel without framebuffer support.
These things are annoying.
And if I compare the fps of glxgears of two beta drivers without changing anything else and loose 6000 frames it is a bad sign. Perhaps nothing really bad but something to report.
On my system the 171.06 driver was really good so perhaps I will go back to it and be glad :-)

Greets
Michael
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Old 04-12-08, 05:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilseboy
KDE 4 isn't a good example to prove the drivers speed. At my System KDE4 is very unstable and changed very hard form 4.0.0 to 4.0.3. It's getting better but is slow anyway.
But to disable Composite isn't a solution. With this approach I could use the nv driver and be happy. It's a GF 8800 it is a little annoying to disable all that stuff because I don't want to let my CPU do it all cause I have that GFX Card.
I can live without it but I simply don't want it.
The 169 Series Driver did lock my System without composite or compiz. The previous releases did lockups if I changed to terminal. I had to compile my kernel without framebuffer support.
These things are annoying.
And if I compare the fps of glxgears of two beta drivers without changing anything else and loose 6000 frames it is a bad sign. Perhaps nothing really bad but something to report.
On my system the 171.06 driver was really good so perhaps I will go back to it and be glad :-)

Greets
Michael
KDE4 isn't ready yet, but it works very well on windows. Slow are nvidia drivers (nvidia devs can't make a good driver for their own hardware?!) NOT KDE4 or QT/GTK. KDE4 works very well on Intel drivers...
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Old 04-12-08, 07:50 AM   #20
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

While I personally don't care all that much about the drop in 3D performance, I do care a lot about the almost 50% speed decrease in rendering GTK (and I would assume all 2d seeing as everything feels sluggish compared in 171.06) on my 8800. Now I know it's not a utility made for benchmarking drivers, but the "gtkperf" tool consistently reports rendering the various widgets at around half the speed of the previous driver no matter what theme I'm using.
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Old 04-12-08, 07:51 AM   #21
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
KDE4 works very well on Intel drivers...
No it doesn't. I have a 945GM and with EXA enabled its as slow as it could be be (resizing windows, scrolling), with XAA+NoOffscreenPixmaps its fast - but this means softwarerendering only, so its not the intel driver which makes things go fast, but my fast Core2Duo.
I still hope that things will be better when the whole batchbuffer+TTM work will be released.

lg Clemens
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Old 04-12-08, 08:26 AM   #22
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linuxhippy
No it doesn't. I have a 945GM and with EXA enabled its as slow as it could be be (resizing windows, scrolling), with XAA+NoOffscreenPixmaps its fast - but this means softwarerendering only, so its not the intel driver which makes things go fast, but my fast Core2Duo.
I still hope that things will be better when the whole batchbuffer+TTM work will be released.
Some people told me that KDE4 runs smooth on their Intel cards. Maybe they're using another models etc. However KDE4 is probably much faster on your card than on mine. NVIDIA drivers sux and that's a fact. Slow KDE4 is not an only nvidia problem.
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Old 04-12-08, 09:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

Quote:
Originally Posted by tilseboy
KDE 4 isn't a good example to prove the drivers speed. At my System KDE4 is very unstable and changed very hard form 4.0.0 to 4.0.3. It's getting better but is slow anyway.
I'm using kde4 from trunk, which incidentally is much more stable and faster than the so-called "stable" releases. It is fast, with the exception of painting speed, rubberband effect lag, and annoying scrolling lag. The thing is...is that under windows, none of these things happen, It's bloody fast all the time.

Qt uses render much more extensively than other toolkits, so it should be a valid test as to whether the card can accelerate common desktop operations. What I don't want is for nvidia to only get their act together byt the time 4.3 comes out. I'll be peeved if 4.1 is slow, angry if 4.2 is slow and positively murderous if 4.3 is slow (and probably sell my laptop and choose a competitor's gpu).

There probably are optimizations to be had for Qt 4.5 etc but the fact that 4.4 is perfect under windows but not under linux is fairly annoying. I've seen kde 4 (trunk) run fine on an intel igp (on a slower laptop than mine) so I think it's a fairly decent test (not benchmark tho) as to whether the drivers can handle drawing operations for the desktop.
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Old 04-12-08, 11:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: [173.08]2D is very slow

I'm running Gnome 2.22 with Xorg 1.4.0 with two 8700's in SLI. 173.08 is very slow, particularly when scrolling through on Evolution and Firefox. Switching back to 171.06 returns performance. There were no changes in Xorg configuration. I can put up an NVidia bug report if necessary.
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