Go Back   nV News Forums > Linux Support Forums > NVIDIA Linux

Newegg Daily Deals

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-19-08, 12:09 AM   #1
gtbrad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6
Default Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Is there any plans or a chance for addition power management features like "OnDemandVBlankInterrupts" and powermizer to be added to the legacy drivers?
gtbrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-08, 04:43 AM   #2
AaronP
NVIDIA Corporation
 
AaronP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,487
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

No
AaronP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-08, 09:05 AM   #3
cellstije
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 43
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronP
No
I am genuinely baffled by nvidia lack of agenda and perspective in providing support to their own costumers, aka developing and planning features for their own linux driver.

Lurking on the net (nvnews forum, phoronix webpage/forum, ubuntu forums, xorg mailing lists, nouveau irc backlogs, ...) I notice an increasing number of people dissatisfied with the quality and the features of the nvidia 'blob', both for old ("legacy") hardware and new hardware.
Essential features (e.g.: powermizer) are not back ported, old features are dropped (e.g. xvmc support), development agenda not following the main agenda of the linux graphic system (dri2, gallium), lack of interest in the contribution to the xorg development

You, NVIDIA costumers and readers of this forum , try to compare AMD and INTEL interest to the one showed by NVIDIA.
Both AMD and INTEL _have_ indicated a clear path that they will follow in the next years, e.g.: they provide open specifications, open drivers, they actively collaborate in designing the interfaces required to make xorg evolve (e.g.:ttm, dri2, gallium,...) ,... no, updating the nv driver is not enough !

If i compare the performance of a radeon 9250 (dell dimension 8100) using the opensource 'radeon' driver with the one provided by the blob on a gf440go (dell Inspiron 8200), same Kubuntu GG 7.10:

- 2D is faster on the radeon
- aiglx is faster on the radeon
- i can hibernate the _desktop_ machine reliably (radeon driver)
- I can _not_ suspend/hibernate the laptop reliably.
- I can play UFO:AI and NWN on the 9250
- I have resolution issues with the 440 go on NVN
- I don't have to fiddle with the xorg.conf to have the 9250 working properly
- I have to fiddle with the xorg.conf to have the gf440go to recognize the laptop LCD with the blob.

My only hope to see the NVIDIA hardware properly supported under linux is the nouveau project. A project that is constantly hindered by NVIDIA which obfuscate the nv code and tries actively to make the reverse engineering job harder and harder.
Since there is no doubt that the nouveau project will succeed (nv4x are already well supported by the experimental gallium driver), is NVIDIA planning to just embrace it when is done? Is this the open-source strategy that the phoronix website is hypothesizing?
Is NVIDIA just waiting for other people to provide the solution to its problem for free?

I got an APPLE MBP with gf8600M GT, and the only reason that forces me to not install linux is the lack of support of its gpu (no, do not tell me that the blob "supports it", read this forum and you realize that the support is only nominal). Thanks NVIDIA.

I will install linux on the MPB eventually: when the nouveau driver will support it. (my guess is the end of this year, when dri2, ttm, gallium and nouveau have landed gracefully in the main xorg tree).

Sorry for this long message, but I am fed up!
I have been an NVIDIA costumer for a while now (gf440go, gf6200, gf8600mGT) and I will shop elsewhere in the future!

Best,
c.
cellstije is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-08, 11:36 AM   #4
artem
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 713
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Essentially NVIDIA doesn't give a f*ck about the minority of users like you and they are quite right about that.

1) NVIDIA Linux user base is virtually non existent. (<1% of all PC users)
2) Legacy hardware users are less than tenth of 1)
3) Why the hell NVIDIA should devote the time of its hardware and software engineers for folk like you?

I've been using NVIDIA 'blobs' since 1999 and had very few major problems (the only severe one I remember is a complete X server hang with xrender acceleration turned on). Suspend and hibernation work flawlessly for me.

So far Linux NVIDIA drivers are in a very good state for majority of Linux users and you dare to blame them for that.

As your point about DAAMIT and Intel I'd like to say that

1) Intel hardware sucks in every possible way - their embedded graphics solutions are far slower than NVIDIA's and ATI's ones and ... consume far more power. I suppose you can google for comparisons of, say, NVIDIA 8100/8200 vs G35.

2) NVIDIA has no incentive to release specs for its hardware ... since for Intel such revelations do not mean anything (their hardware is inferior) and for ATI is a sign of desperation and lack of man-power to produce good binary blobs for Linux.
artem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-08, 03:24 PM   #5
AaronP
NVIDIA Corporation
 
AaronP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,487
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

The legacy driver branches are for critical bug fixes and support for new kernels & X servers only. Please don't let this thread devolve into a flame war.
AaronP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-08, 06:52 PM   #6
cellstije
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 43
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Dear whoever you are,

i find your answer rather ignorant and offensive.
However, I won't start any flamewar or such, I'll limit myself reiterating a simple concept:

I will shop somewhere else in the future.

You should start looking around and understanding what xorg agenda is and how your "lover"(=nvidia hardware) fit into it.

best of luck
c.

Quote:
Originally Posted by artem
Essentially NVIDIA doesn't give a f*ck about the minority of users like you and they are quite right about that.

1) NVIDIA Linux user base is virtually non existent. (<1% of all PC users)
2) Legacy hardware users are less than tenth of 1)
3) Why the hell NVIDIA should devote the time of its hardware and software engineers for folk like you?

I've been using NVIDIA 'blobs' since 1999 and had very few major problems (the only severe one I remember is a complete X server hang with xrender acceleration turned on). Suspend and hibernation work flawlessly for me.

So far Linux NVIDIA drivers are in a very good state for majority of Linux users and you dare to blame them for that.

As your point about DAAMIT and Intel I'd like to say that

1) Intel hardware sucks in every possible way - their embedded graphics solutions are far slower than NVIDIA's and ATI's ones and ... consume far more power. I suppose you can google for comparisons of, say, NVIDIA 8100/8200 vs G35.

2) NVIDIA has no incentive to release specs for its hardware ... since for Intel such revelations do not mean anything (their hardware is inferior) and for ATI is a sign of desperation and lack of man-power to produce good binary blobs for Linux.
cellstije is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-08, 09:03 AM   #7
cellstije
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 43
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

A Preview Of Kernel-Based Mode-Setting

Quote:
There are many new and innovative features brewing within the X.Org development community right now -- among the many are Gallium3D, the TTM memory manager, and MPX (Multi-Pointer X) -- but one of the features that has risen towards the top of the list and delivers visible benefits to the end-user is kernel-based mode-setting.
full article at:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...esetting&num=1

c.
cellstije is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-08, 09:23 AM   #8
chunkey
#!/?*
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 662
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cellstije
A Preview Of Kernel-Based Mode-Setting



full article at:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...esetting&num=1

c.
And? What's the point here? Can we finally run maya on a Intel Chip, because we can run it directly from the console, so we don't have the overhead of the _slow_ X-Server anymore?
... and why are you still posting? I though you are testing now Intel's/AMD's legacy graphic hardware with _new & shiny_ drivers?
chunkey is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 04-20-08, 10:31 AM   #9
Lethe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Not forgetting the 'flame wars' bit, but nVidia STOPPED support for non-SSE enabled cpu's (Athlon-tbird et al) in the latest drivers. Why? Why drop a function? That is retrograding, and obviously done for other motives than performance.

Now, the reason being is a proprietary closed source secret squirrel manufacturer (aka MS, nVidia) can ONLY make money by forcing people to upgrade ~ all the time, and at the proprietary owners whim when then need to force further sales.

Customers are not even in the equation here, and more fool them (me) for ending up in the locked-in loop.

Hence the third post in this thread by cellstije is dead centre right on the ball.

Nick (using Nouveau driver now).
Lethe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-08, 11:17 AM   #10
Silverbak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 47
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronP
No
Frankly I think this is a good thing and I think people should maybe stop whining so much.

I would prefer it if dev's spent their time evolving the drivers for the newer hardware we've been buying.

I think if someone wants legacy support hardware to be supported then waiting for and open source driver appear in the future might be the only thing that you can do. The good news is that in that circumstance, you yourself could develop the code necessary to support it and I'm sure others will help.
Silverbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-08, 11:26 AM   #11
Lethe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 178
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

Quote:
Frankly I think this is a good thing and I think people should maybe stop whining so much.
Stop 'whining'?? Geez, if you bought a car (e.g.) and after 5 years the maker said "Sorry, mate, will don't make them tyres no more, you will have to get a new car" you, and anybody would should start whining.

Nick
Lethe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-08, 11:39 AM   #12
NvFuchs
Registered Fox
 
NvFuchs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Posts: 530
Default Re: Additional Power Management for Legacy Drivers

First of all: computer cannot be compared to cars,
development is much faster for computers,
and pc hardware is obsolete much earlier.

Then: the analogy is still wrong, as nvidia still
provides support for older cards, they simply
don't build in new features for them.

Now name me a car manufactorer which cares
for updating functinality for an old car.

Fuchs
NvFuchs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NVIDIA Drivers Receive Windows 8 Certification News Archived News Items 0 06-01-12 06:30 AM
Enhance Max Payne 3, Diablo III with GeForce R300 Drivers News Archived News Items 0 05-22-12 07:30 PM
Creative drivers ? SparrowHawk General Hardware 39 11-18-02 09:03 AM
Radeon 9700 not all that? sancheuz Other Desktop Graphics Cards 200 10-12-02 10:31 PM
Power Management (XP) Iron1384 Microsoft Windows XP And Vista 6 08-22-02 02:29 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2014, nV News.