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Old 08-26-02, 01:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lezmaka


To me, it seems like he's stating what he paid for them, and not saying those were msrp
Yes, that's what I paid for the cards.
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Old 08-26-02, 03:00 PM   #14
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With the latest drivers, the Radeon 64MB VIVO IS faster than the Geforce2 GTS. I have both cards, and it's true. Not to mention the Radeon has 100 times better IQ in everything and free OpenGL Aniso!

Most ATi users are happy with their cards and drivers. I don't have any problems with my Radeons, or Rage 128 for that matter. I still use my Rage 128 and it's still going. It has beautiful IQ in games, alot better than the Radeon series or Geforce series.

IMO the Radeon has alot better color quality than the 4600, and I'm not going to use a vibrance option, as it just looks weird.

That just my $20.
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Old 08-26-02, 03:01 PM   #15
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As if I wouldn't get a Ti4600 if I had the chance. If I had the money I'd buy one and a second PC for it. And true I could play Aquanox without the messed up textures like on some of the turrets I see using the 8500. So I spent all my money on the Radeon. Give a guy a break while he's saving up for Nvidia. I can't be that bad for just one possible mistake in spending.

For DVD, gaming color and so on the Ti4600 sounds better, ok. But isn't evironmental bump mapping the one area the the 8500 is better at? At least there's something. If you shoot that down, chrieeest, what's left?

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Old 08-26-02, 03:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turnbolt
Give a guy a break while he's saving up for Nvidia. I can't be that bad for just one possible mistake in spending.
As long as you're admitting you've made a mistake, that's the first step on the road to recovery. Do yourself a favor while you're saving and wait for the inevitable price drop of the GF4 Ti series. Naturally with the introduction of the Radeon 9700 the price will be coming down more and more.

Also while you're at it don't bother with the Ti4600. Get a Ti4400 for $50-$100 less and overclock it to Ti4600 levels. Any Ti4400 you buy (with the exception of the eVGA w/ACS2) should be more than able to accomplish this. That way you'll have yourself a card that performs like a Ti4600 only you'll be several dollars richer.
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Old 08-26-02, 03:15 PM   #17
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Forgot to ask about color settings for each game, guys. On the color controls the come with the Ti4600 or with Riva Tuner do you have to setup a profile for each game? If so is that a hassle and do the settings slip and need readjustment too much? Or pick a setting that works for colors for most games.

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Old 08-26-02, 03:17 PM   #18
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I personally have my digital vibrance set to low all the time, for desktop work and gaming. You can set up individual profiles for games with RivaTuner if you want, but I personally don't feel it's necessary. Low digital vibrance works just about perfectly for all my needs, from desktop work, to gaming and watching DVD's.

Once you have your card you'll have to experiment on a game by game basis to find what you like the best.
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Old 08-27-02, 12:56 AM   #19
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I hate to break it to you guys but there is nothing special about digital vibrance.

Its just a simple hack to get more colour changes with less detail. In other words instead of gradients of colour 1/256th, they bump the black level by maybe 20/256ths, and then multiply all the other values by 1.25

So by gaining more colour intensity you actually lose colour accuracy. Its sort of like ripping the filters off of a card, it will overall be brighter, but the accuracy just gets shot to hell, thats whey they are there in the first place.

It works ok at getting more signal to cheap monitors that are dark to start with, but on any higher end 19"+ monitor, many images will have many colour inaccuracies.

ATi could easily put a software colour vibrance hack in its drivers too, but I think they would rather have it done properly in hardware instead of requiring a software hack.

Nvidia peeps call it a feature, Ati peeps call it a software hack for poor hardware implementation, take your pick.

And a Radeon 8500 Anisotropic image is quite a bit clearer than any setting on a GF4. The GF4 does have better AA than the 8500.

Last edited by ZenOps; 08-27-02 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 08-27-02, 05:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZenOps
I hate to break it to you guys but there is nothing special about digital vibrance.

Its just a simple hack to get more colour changes with less detail. In other words instead of gradients of colour 1/256th, they bump the black level by maybe 20/256ths, and then multiply all the other values by 1.25

So by gaining more colour intensity you actually lose colour accuracy. Its sort of like ripping the filters off of a card, it will overall be brighter, but the accuracy just gets shot to hell, thats whey they are there in the first place.

It works ok at getting more signal to cheap monitors that are dark to start with, but on any higher end 19"+ monitor, many images will have many colour inaccuracies.

ATi could easily put a software colour vibrance hack in its drivers too, but I think they would rather have it done properly in hardware instead of requiring a software hack.

Nvidia peeps call it a feature, Ati peeps call it a software hack for poor hardware implementation, take your pick.

And a Radeon 8500 Anisotropic image is quite a bit clearer than any setting on a GF4. The GF4 does have better AA than the 8500.
Hey, if you DO know, nobody thinks R8500'a ani filter is REAL. unless you kill half of your ani setting thru the highest quality or something...

No. Digital Vibrance is a Feature. some monotir can't do a **** so it helps! You wanna talk about the Radeon series colour? okay, has clear setting. but what? nobody cares about the default setting with darkish view. they change their monitor colour temprature or use the slide. And who cares about the slight difrerences using GF series cards? Do you think a photo designers are using GF to do that? NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

So normal useres like me just want more clearer colour/better looking colour than another crappy darkish colour.

Well, guess I have to say sorry if you're an 2D designer using a GF series card and using 2000 or higher res... sorry again!
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Old 08-27-02, 11:27 AM   #21
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I'm going back to the NOLF 2 demo thread in Games, jeesh.

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Old 08-27-02, 04:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by thcdru2k
that really depends on your monitor. your contrast + brightness settings also have an effect.
indeed ..

Monitors are as important as the video card ,
When i upgraded my monitor to a trinitron flat dysplay
i noticed a HUGE!!! diference in the vivid colors in all games ,
i have 2 computers with two geforce's card and the Geforce2 games
in my 17inch sony trinitron monitor looks a lot better the colors than
my Geforce4 in my cheap 19inch monitor ...

however video cards can make a diference too , MAtrox video cards
seems to have a better 2d quality ,and Ati and Nvidia quality
are near the same in most games ,without using AA+AF settings ,
the best place to see the diferences in games quality is in a Lan party ,there you will see old voodoo5 cards looking better than
Geforces and Radeons in some games , thanks to monitors ..
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Old 08-27-02, 06:47 PM   #23
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yes exactly with a good monitor, you willl see voodoo5 looking more vibrant than geforce's with a ****ty monitor.

and btw, all that digital vibrance is just presets , you would probably be better off tweaking your own monitor settings and video rgb settings.
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Old 08-27-02, 09:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turnbolt
As if I wouldn't get a Ti4600 if I had the chance. If I had the money I'd buy one and a second PC for it. And true I could play Aquanox without the messed up textures like on some of the turrets I see using the 8500. So I spent all my money on the Radeon. Give a guy a break while he's saving up for Nvidia. I can't be that bad for just one possible mistake in spending.

For DVD, gaming color and so on the Ti4600 sounds better, ok. But isn't evironmental bump mapping the one area the the 8500 is better at? At least there's something. If you shoot that down, chrieeest, what's left?

Turnbolt
what recent or upcoming games actually use EMBM? most newer ones like Giants used Dot3, and upcoming DX8 games use pixel shaders
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