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Old 04-23-08, 11:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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Originally Posted by Bearclaw
You could... but AMD chips suck performance wise. It would be a waste of money, no matter how cheap, and no matter if they "give" you an "extra" core for "free".
Well, I wouldn't say they suck, but they are definitely inferior to Core 2s.

Still, $150 for a 3 core 2.1Ghz CPU isn't that bad.

For people who benefit from multi-core CPUs and are on a budget, it'd be hard to beat.

For the average user though, yeah, its pretty much pointless. A dual core intel chip that costs $120 will be faster in pretty much every scenario.
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Old 04-24-08, 12:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

I'd beg to differ. Any performance gains, for the most part, are only good for A.) Bragging points and B.) enlarging one's e-peen. There isn't a single game out there that'd be too much for my Phenom 9600 to handle. Even further more, the 9850s are known to OC by 1Ghz easily with water cooling. Hitting 3.0 - 3.2Ghz on air is typically a breeze for 'em.

For most people, a Phenom 9850 is far more CPU than they'll ever need in a long time. Even for gaming. Pair a Phenom up with some strong GPUs (dual 8800s or 3870s) and 4GB of RAM... there isn't a game out there (save for Crysis) that such a rig wouldn't plow through with ease.

Heck, as is I'm seeing more of a bottleneck from my current GPU than I am from my CPU. OC'ing the video card yeilds more a gain for me than oc'ing my CPU.

Most here bad mouth the Phenoms, yet I doubt any body here has extensively used one. I am 100% positive that if you had two computer that were 100% identical except that one was using a Phenom and one was using a Core2 Quad from the same price bracket, and you weren't allowed to utilise FRAPS nor check out the hardware specs of either rig... you'd not be able to distinguish a performance difference between the two, save for some more enthusiast-oriented tasks possibly. But definitely not in anything most people would be using their systems for, including gaming.

I've purchased a Core2 Quad Q6600. I want to invest in a good SLi mobo for it. I then aim to replace my current setup with a 9850 and atleast dual 3870s, if not dual 3870X2s. I'll be certain to do some comparisons between the two rigs.
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Old 04-24-08, 12:19 AM   #15
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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Originally Posted by Redeemed
I'd beg to differ. Any performance gains, for the most part, are only good for A.) Bragging points and B.) enlarging one's e-peen. There isn't a single game out there that'd be too much for my Phenom 9600 to handle. Even further more, the 9850s are known to OC by 1Ghz easily with water cooling. Hitting 3.0 - 3.2Ghz on air is typically a breeze for 'em.

For most people, a Phenom 9850 is far more CPU than they'll ever need in a long time. Even for gaming. Pair a Phenom up with some strong GPUs (dual 8800s or 3870s) and 4GB of RAM... there isn't a game out there (save for Crysis) that such a rig wouldn't plow through with ease.

Heck, as is I'm seeing more of a bottleneck from my current GPU than I am from my CPU. OC'ing the video card yeilds more a gain for me than oc'ing my CPU.

Most here bad mouth the Phenoms, yet I doubt any body here has extensively used one. I am 100% positive that if you had two computer that were 100% identical except that one was using a Phenom and one was using a Core2 Quad from the same price bracket, and you weren't allowed to utilise FRAPS nor check out the hardware specs of either rig... you'd not be able to distinguish a performance difference between the two, save for some more enthusiast-oriented tasks possibly. But definitely not in anything most people would be using their systems for, including gaming.

I've purchased a Core2 Duo Q6600. I want to invest in a good SLi mobo for it. I then aim to replace my current setup with a 9850 and atleast dual 3870s, if not dual 3870X2s. I'll be certain to do some comparisons between the two rigs.
I strongly disagree.

Lets just leave it at that.
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Old 04-24-08, 12:46 AM   #16
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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that might be because its a quad core chip that didn't meet quality standards. So instead of throwing it away trash like you are suppose to do, they sell it to the market.

AMD's move on triple core is equivalent to buying a foot long sub from Subway that falls from the sandwich artist's hands and into his pants. Instead of remaking the sub, the sandwich artist cuts off 1/4th of the sub which was rubbing against his crank and sells it to you at a $1.00 discount.
What the hell do you think an 8800 GTS is? Oh ****, it's a G80 with a defective chunk of the chip turned off. It's no different. Most chips are designed so that some portion of it can be masked off and sold as a lower grade product if not all of it checks out. It's not releasing a defective product (it does what it's advertised to do, it'd only be deceptive if they sold you an x3 labeled as an x4), it's smart design to have the capability to do this instead of wasting the entire chip.

Intel does the same thing, frequently their celeron products are their standard desktop product with part of the chip (usually cache) disabled.
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Old 04-24-08, 12:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

I love how you babies get your panties in a twist over a bottom end budget company. It amuses me.
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Old 04-24-08, 01:08 AM   #18
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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I strongly disagree.

Lets just leave it at that.
Well, I'd rather not. Debates are so all individuals involved walk away with a greater understanding of the topic debated than what they had before the debate.

You only see the gains in benchmarks and FRAPS runs. Take the performance-monitors away and any gains become unnoticable. You really think Crysis will run faster just because you have a Q6600 at 3.4GHz than if you had a Phenom 9850 at 3.2GHz? Wow, you might actually get a single frame per second increase.

Or, let's take COD4. Sure, you might see a 20FPS increase. Yet if the game is already running over 60FPS (which I'm 110% positive it would on a rig with a Phenom 9850 and 8800), once again the performance difference isn't noticable.

So how about Oblivion? Once again, we encounter more of a GPU bottleneck than a CPU one, as is the case with Crysis.

Here you can see the 9850 easily keeps up with the Q6600 or exceeds it in almost every non-game test. The game benchmarks are really close regardless; in UT3 the Q6600 gets 187.1 while the 9850 gets 165.8- a difference of 21.3FPS *that you would never notice without FRAPS running*, in Crysis the Q6600 gets 50.9 while the 9850 gets 49.6- a difference of 1.3FPS *that you would never notice without FRAPS running*, in FEAR the Q6600 got 108.0 while the 9850 got 134.6- a difference of 26.6 favoring the Phenom *that you wouldn't notice without FRAPS running*, in CoH the Q6600 gets 147.3 while the 9850 gets 133.8- a difference of 13.5FPS *that you would not notice without FRAPS running*, and in Prey the Q6600 gets 162.9 while the 9850 gets 145.6- a difference of 17.3FPS *that you will not notice without FRAPS running*. So let's move onto the results from a different site now...

And here's the Anandtech article with performance results consistent to the previous review...

If need be I can go through and create a list of every review pitting the 9850 against the Q6600. Currently there's a price difference of about $16 between the two, favoring the Q6600. It wont surprise me in the least bit if AMD drops the 9850 down to $200 to remain more competitive.

Honestly, the only real reason to get a Q6600 right now is simply cause their cheaper, and in more specialized situations it'd be a little bit faster. But realisticly speaking, you're not gonna' see that performance difference, be it in favoring the 9850 or the Q6600, unless you have some performance-monitoring app running to measure that difference for you.

All AMD needs to do right now is bring the prices down on the Phenoms. Performance wise they're plenty competitive, just need to be a bit cheaper. I'm fairly certain AMD will offer a price drop, though I've not heard any word as to when.
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Old 04-24-08, 01:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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I love how you babies get your panties in a twist over a bottom end budget company. It amuses me.
Comming from the guy that, more than likely, whacks off to his own reflection every morning.
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Old 04-24-08, 01:41 AM   #20
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Comming from the guy that, more than likely, whacks off to his own reflection every morning.
 

Old 04-24-08, 01:47 AM   #21
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

Honestly Redeemed, I'm not interested in debating on whether or not I can notice a difference in performance between two systems under certain circumstances. I know people who still swear there is no difference between 24 and 80 fps, and others (most) that don't notice when a game drops from 60 to 30fps randomly. Its all subjective and IMO pointless to discuss.

Because of this, I don't really feel that any benchmark sites can accurately show the differences... but looking at what you posted, it appears the high end Phenoms aren't as far behind as the early reviews showed. But really, I wasn't even commenting on the quad core price vs performance or any of that, so I don't know why that was a big topic for you. I was more interested in how the low\mid range Intel solutions are generally faster than AMDs in gaming:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3293&p=8
And that a third core is, at the moment, useless for most people.

I stick by it that the Core 2s are better, simply because they are a bit faster and the reviews show that (even the ones you posted). I came right out and said the difference wasn't huge, but Intel's lead is there. I'm not sure where the argument is here...

Also, Tyger. I don't see much point in trying to get under the skin of all us "lowly sniveling geeks". When you come into a technical part of the forum trying to instigate a flame war and then get told you're wrong because you don't know what you're talking about, you tend to just look like a douche bag, especially when trying to play the "too cool for you geeks" thing. You're the tough guy that's still picking on the nerds like its high school.
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Old 04-24-08, 01:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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Originally Posted by CaptNKILL
Honestly Redeemed, I'm not interested in debating on whether or not I can notice a difference in performance between two systems under certain circumstances. I know people who still swear there is no difference between 24 and 80 fps, and others (most) that don't notice when a game drops from 60 to 30fps randomly. Its all subjective and IMO pointless to discuss.

Because of this, I don't really feel that any benchmark sites can accurately show the differences... but looking at what you posted, it appears the high end Phenoms aren't as far behind as the early reviews showed. But really, I wasn't even commenting on the quad core price vs performance or any of that, so I don't know why that was a big topic for you. I was more interested in how the low\mid range Intel solutions are generally faster than AMDs in gaming:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3293&p=8
And that a third core is, at the moment, useless for most people.

I stick by it that the Core 2s are better, simply because they are a bit faster and the reviews show that (even the ones you posted). I came right out and said the difference wasn't huge, but Intel's lead is there. I'm not sure where the argument is here...

Also, Tyger. I don't see much point in trying to get under the skin of all us "lowly sniveling geeks". When you come into a technical part of the forum trying to instigate a flame war and then get told you're wrong because you don't know what you're talking about, you tend to just look like a douche bag, especially when trying to play the "too cool for you geeks" thing. You're the tough guy that's still picking on the nerds like its high school.


Okay Capn, seems we agree then. Intel's recent price-cut definitely put everything back in their favor. Go back a month and AMD atleast had the price advantage. Currently they've even lost that. At this point it is really ignorant to purchase an AMD proc when a faster Core2 is available for as much or less money. Yet I do doubt AMD will keep their prices as they are. I'm expecting the 9850s to drop to around $200 to remain more competitive with the Q6600s, and the preceeding models to drop accordingly. But untill then, they really don't hold any form of an advantage save in a few remote circumstances.
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Old 04-24-08, 02:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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Okay Capn, seems we agree then. Intel's recent price-cut definitely put everything back in their favor. Go back a month and AMD atleast had the price advantage. Currently they've even lost that. At this point it is really ignorant to purchase an AMD proc when a faster Core2 is available for as much or less money. Yet I do doubt AMD will keep their prices as they are. I'm expecting the 9850s to drop to around $200 to remain more competitive with the Q6600s, and the preceeding models to drop accordingly. But untill then, they really don't hold any form of an advantage save in a few remote circumstances.
I agree completely.

The Phenom is not anywhere near as bad as most hardware enthusiasts think, and that's going by the benchmarks that are all over the web.

BUT, they ARE slower than Intel 9 times out of 10. In some cases its significant, in others it isn't. If a user isn't too picky about framerate, they will probably never notice.

But at the same time, why buy something that's slower? Even if you won't notice the difference, its just a bad decision. These X3 CPUs should be pretty good for people wanting a cheap encoding\number crunching machine, but for anyone else there isn't any good reason to go with one over a dual core. In fact, according to this, even a cheap $140 Intel Dual core is extremely close to a $150 Phenom X3 in encoding:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3293&p=7

So really, it doesn't seem like this chip is going to do much for them other than allow them to save some money that they would normally lose on Quads with a bad core. OEMs will probably eat these up since they are so cheap.
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Old 04-24-08, 02:02 AM   #24
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Default Re: Wow! AMD finally releases a good product!

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Also, Tyger. I don't see much point in trying to get under the skin of all us "lowly sniveling geeks". When you come into a technical part of the forum trying to instigate a flame war and then get told you're wrong because you don't know what you're talking about, you tend to just look like a douche bag, especially when trying to play the "too cool for you geeks" thing. You're the tough guy that's still picking on the nerds like its high school.
wait, this isnt high school? ****, im on the wrong forum again.
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