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Old 05-06-08, 01:52 PM   #1
marcus.kall
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Default HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

I have a NVIDIA GPU GeForce Go 7600 and a Samsung LE32 TV and I'm trying to get 1920x1080 without overscanning with DVI.

The nVidia card detects the TV and receives edid for both 1920x1080 and 1280x720 with DVI-cable, but the TV overscans the image so I can't see the outer pixels. When I use the VGA-connector I have no problems.

I try to create custom resolutions (or resolution in resolution as its called in powerstrip) so the nvidia card doesn't use the outer pixels. This works fine with 1280x720. I have created the following modelines (some with powerstrip and some by my own).

ModeLine "1176x664a" 74.250 1176 1390 1430 1650 664 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
ModeLine "1176x664b" 74.250 1176 1338 1378 1650 664 697 702 750 +hsync +vsync
ModeLine "1200x670" 74.250 1200 1208 1248 1980 670 700 705 750 +hsync +vsync

Those ModeLines work fine and I see all the pixels. (Of course I have to disable scaling)

When I try do to the same with 1920x1080 I get errors in the Xorg logfile (using logverbose 15)

Modelines:

ModeLine "1768x992a" 74.250 1768 2008 2052 2200 992 1085 1095 1125 interlace +hsync +vsync
ModeLine "1768x992b" 74.250 1768 1932 1976 2200 992 1041 1051 1125 interlace +hsync +vsync
ModeLine "1800x1008" 74.250 1800 1808 1852 2200 1008 1049 1059 1125 interlace +hsync +vsync

Message:

(II) NVIDIA(0): Validating Mode "1768x992a":
(II) NVIDIA(0): 1768 x 992 @ 60 Hz
(II) NVIDIA(0): Mode Source: X Configuration file ModeLine
(II) NVIDIA(0): Pixel Clock : 74.250 MHz
(II) NVIDIA(0): HRes, HSyncStart : 1768, 2008
(II) NVIDIA(0): HSyncEnd, HTotal : 2052, 2200
(II) NVIDIA(0): VRes, VSyncStart : 992, 1085
(II) NVIDIA(0): VSyncEnd, VTotal : 1095, 1125
(II) NVIDIA(0): H/V Polarity : +/+
(II) NVIDIA(0): Extra : Interlace
(II) NVIDIA(0): Mode (1768 x 992) is too large for DFP Native Resolution
(II) NVIDIA(0): (Max: 1280 x 720); mode will not be allowed to scale
(II) NVIDIA(0): to the DFP's native resolution.
(WW) NVIDIA(0): Unable to use mode "1768x992a" for SAMSUNG (DFP-1); cannot
(WW) NVIDIA(0): compute backend DFP timings (mode is larger than
(WW) NVIDIA(0): native backend 1280 x 720).
(WW) NVIDIA(0): Mode is rejected: Unable to determine BestFit backend DFP
(WW) NVIDIA(0): timings.

The nvidia card says that the native resultion is 1280x720, but it can handle a 1920x1080 image? How is that possible? I know that the real native resultion is 1366x768, which the EDID over VGA-connector says.

When I use Vista I get two modes 1176x664 and 1176x66, and they work perfect.

I attach the nvidia-bug-report.log as well as the xorg.conf and Xorg.log. The xorg.conf and Xorg.log included in the nvidia-bug-report.log is not relevant.


nvidia-bug-report.log.bz2

xorg.conf.bz2

Xorg.1.log.bz2
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Old 05-07-08, 11:54 AM   #2
_Inferno_
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

See: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=110231

:=( Hey Nvidia, this isn't a small issue, is it??? There are thousands (probably more) with this problem... Don't let us down please.

Dave
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Old 05-07-08, 12:00 PM   #3
pe1chl
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

This issue has been discussed before. The NVIDIA driver misdetects the native resolution because it assumes that the first mode given back by the monitor is its native resolution. This is not always true.
You can see it when you start the X server in verbose log mode, like written in the sticky about "if you have a problem".
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Old 05-07-08, 12:30 PM   #4
_Inferno_
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

Right.. that is why we need underscan/overscan detection by default. It shouldn't be a feature that we have been waiting years to be added. There are tons of people who have this problem and have no option but to resort to Windows. Isn't that awefull?

I know that Nvidia and Microsoft are partners with the whole Xbox thing, but should they ignore the whole Linux PC and future HTPC market at the same time? The simple answer is no.. let's hope that the execs haven't found a not so simple answer..

Linux is a real alternative to MS, and HTPC support would be a boon to Linux, MS has a right to be scared, but not to abuse the market like this.

Dave
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Old 05-07-08, 12:35 PM   #5
pe1chl
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

The issue of underscan/overscan has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of misdetecting the native resolution of the display!

Overscan is there because the TV follows the relevant TV transmission standards, which specify overscan for historic reasons (misalignment of CRT screens).
What you need is a TV that can disable the overscan (some can do this in a menu) or some way to work around it by using less than the full screen for applications.
That is actually an X issue, not so much an NVIDIA issue.
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Old 05-07-08, 12:55 PM   #6
_Inferno_
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

If it were an X issue, then SAX2 in Opensuse would have corrected the problem, unfortunatly, it has no effect because of lack of driver support.

Saying that this is an X issue instead of a driver problem / missing feature is simply passing the buck and saying that Nvidia is not responsible. I have been an Nvidia fan since they practically started and I hate how this is affecting their reputation. They should just get this resolved already.

Dave
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Old 05-07-08, 01:28 PM   #7
pe1chl
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

It is an X issue because X (apparently) has no provision to have a 1920x1080 screen at the driver level and then use a smaller area, say 1820x980, for the actual display (leaving a 50 pixel unused border).
This is possible in Windows, and thus the issue does not arise there. When it would be generically solved in X, it would not be necessary for Nvidia and all the other driver writers to hack something at the lowest level.
What is needed is some way to define a slightly smaller size for the root window, and then automatically have the window manager and all the applications stay within this area.
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Old 05-08-08, 08:44 AM   #8
Big P
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

I'm not certain if this is the same issue I had, but basically if I dragged a window (mplayer movie) to my tv screen and maximised it, the size of the movie would be larger than the screen itself (so the bottom right of the movie was truncated).

Initially I managed to get around this by using:
mplayer -xineramascreen 1 -fs movie.avi

I was unsure if this issue was related to mplayer, so I tested with xine which worked fine (dragging it across and maximising it). So I edited my mplayer.conf to change the aspect (default is 4:3 - if not specified) to 16:9, and now I have no overscan from mplayer.

I'll post my mplayer.conf later (at work now) if this is the issue people have.
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Old 05-08-08, 12:04 PM   #9
_john_i_
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

Hi guys,

I've been dealing with this problem for years on my movie playing machine.

Here is my workaround: It's kind of a kludge, but works well for me.

First, for the desktop I run xgl, and I have modified xgl to allow me to specify it's starting x,y position. Through trial and error, I found the right start position, and width/height to make it fit on the tv screen perfectly.

For mplayer, I of course don't want to run it within xgl for performance reasons. So when I play a movie, I specify "-display :0" to make it display on the underlying X server (which luckily comes up on top of the xgl window.)

I also have found a formula to calculate settings for the "expand" filter in mplayer that will shrink down the movie, and shift it down and to the right to fit perfectly on my screen.

I'm sure this will be different for different TV's and resolutions, but here is what I do:

First I crop the movie to 16:9 (I prefer to kill black bands). Let's say I have a movie with resolution 1269x540. First I multiply 540*1.77777. This is roughly 960, so I want to crop the movie down to 960x540. Next I compute the expand filter values to make it fit on viewable area of overscanned screen. The format of the expand filter is "-vf expand=w:h:x:y"

The formula for w is x_res * 0.097 * -1 . In my example (960 * 0.097 * -1) this makes w=-93
The formula for h is y_res * 0.097 * -1. In my example (540 * 0.097 * -1) this makes h=-52
The formula for x is x_res * 0.07. In my example (960 * 0.07) this makes x=67
The formula for y is y_res * 0.04. In my example (540 * 0.04) this makes y=21

My mplayer command line ends up being:
mplayer -display :0 -fs -monitoraspect 16:9 -vf crop=960:540,expand=-93:-52:67:21 movie.avi

This is kind of a complicated workaround but I have found it works well for me. Also note I have a script that uses mplayer to find movie resolution and do all of these calculations for me, so I don't have to manually do this for every movie.

If anyone is interested I can post my patch for xgl start position and my calculation script (though the numbers may be different for your display).
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Old 05-08-08, 01:16 PM   #10
marcus.kall
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

Quote:
Originally Posted by pe1chl
This issue has been discussed before. The NVIDIA driver misdetects the native resolution because it assumes that the first mode given back by the monitor is its native resolution. This is not always true.
You can see it when you start the X server in verbose log mode, like written in the sticky about "if you have a problem".
So this is a bug in the nvidia driver? If this problem is solved, all my underscan problems will be solved.
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Old 05-08-08, 01:18 PM   #11
marcus.kall
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

Quote:
Originally Posted by _john_i_
My mplayer command line ends up being:
mplayer -display :0 -fs -monitoraspect 16:9 -vf crop=960:540,expand=-93:-52:67:21 movie.avi
The "expand" command was really useful. Thank you!
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Old 05-08-08, 01:37 PM   #12
pe1chl
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Default Re: HDTV underscan in 1920x1080

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcus.kall
So this is a bug in the nvidia driver? If this problem is solved, all my underscan problems will be solved.
It is actually a bug in the monitor's EDID combined with an assumption in the Nvidia driver that the VESA recommends against.
The driver makes the assumption that the first listed mode in the EDID is the native resolution of the display. But this is not really true; it is the "recommended mode" for the monitor, which may be different from the native resolution. In your monitor, it is.
There is also the invalid assumption in the driver that a mode with a resolution higher than the "native resolution" must not be used.
This is invalid because you may want to use a 1920x1080 mode on a 1366x768 screen and have the monitor do the downscaling.
This is not possible now because the driver rejects the 1920x1080 mode.

Now you can ask Nvidia to "fix the bug" that is assumption is, or to provide a manual method of overriding the native resolution with a user-determined value (a config option in xorg.conf).
Or you can ask the manufacturer of the monitor to fix the problem.

Finally, you can capture the EDID, save it in a file, swap the first two modes, and provide the file as an EDID override. That works.
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