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Old 05-06-03, 10:52 AM   #37
saturnotaku
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Ok, I have his Jan. 29 .plan update in front of me. It sure looks like Carmack has reduced quality code paths at his disposal, but where exactly does he say that he's indeed using them? From this statement, it doesn't sound like he's using them:

Quote:
so when Nvidia runs fragment programs, they are at a higher precision than ATI's, which is some justification for the slower speed. Nvidia assures me that there is a lot of room for improving the fragment program performance with improved driver compiler technology.
Sounds to me like he's holding out hope for said increases. I suppose we'll have to wait until the game is closer to going gold before we'll know for sure if said other code paths have been used.
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Old 05-06-03, 10:58 AM   #38
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you must also remember that since january, the drivers for the nv30 have improved tremendously... the drivers he had in january were very, very, early drivers... it wasnt until recently that the drivers started shaping up.
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Old 05-06-03, 11:01 AM   #39
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This is funny....basically any NV30 review thread is reduced to AA/AF arguing by everyone. Who cares about some review. It is all based on the users personal preference. If 2x AA on the NV30 looks better to Tyrone than 6x AA on the 9800 Pro, so be it and dont argue with it, its his eyes. I have had only experience with ATi products (except my brief run in with the GF4 MX 420) so I don't know what the nv30 looks like. I would not take a NV30 over my Radeon 9700 Pro, but the NV35 ...hell yea.

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Old 05-06-03, 11:08 AM   #40
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I think we should wait for the Detonator FX (5x.xx) before we make any final judements on the FX's performance.

And what mreman4k said, hellbinder is in here far too often with the "this is why ati are better..." which there is just no need for. The NV30 is a nice card, so is the R300/350. Which you get is completley upto personal choice and they all have their own strenghs and weakness's.

People tend to think im pro-nvidia btw just because i stick up for them far more than most people, check around the other graphics cards thread though and you will see that i just buy what i thinks best. Right now i have a 9700 PRO on the way. Truth is ill take the opposite of an argument just to argue its my one flaw

Ill let you guys know how my FX > 9700 AIW goes..
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Old 05-06-03, 12:31 PM   #41
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Quote:
Quality mode in all current Nvidia Drivers = Ballanced mode. Which Clamps several texture stages to Bilinear Filtering, Cuts out some Blend stages etc..
this shows you know nothing about nv30 AF modes.
bashing doom3 and special path shows you have some kind of jealous problem.
in your mind, everything is primarily 90 degree? even outside the graphics world? lol no wonder you need an ati card muhahahahahaha.
by the way, quality mode = application mode.
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Old 05-06-03, 01:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by saturnotaku
Ok, I have his Jan. 29 .plan update in front of me. It sure looks like Carmack has reduced quality code paths at his disposal, but where exactly does he say that he's indeed using them?
http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/jcnv30r300/

Carmack isn't going to spend time programming these multiple paths if the plan is to ship the game without them. This is just again a situation wherein ATi made a very smart design decision by supporting 24fp -- good IQ and good speed. NV30 is either speed, 16fp, or IQ, full 32fp, with the caveat, as Carmack himself has noted, most users won't notice the differences between 24fp and 32fp but they sure will notice the performance difference.
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Old 05-06-03, 01:19 PM   #43
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and where exactly does it say hes begun programing them???

nobody will notice 24fp vs 32fp... nobody will notice 16fp vs 24fp either.
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Old 05-06-03, 01:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by hovz
as i said in application mode with any aa or af nv30 loses
just with AF enabled.

nvidia's AA is actually really good - its just that alot of people run AF alongside it.

with Aniso properly disabled (meaning that not only the drivers, but also the bench or game is toggled for TRILINEAR filtering instead of Aniso) i cant even see a slowdown from FSAA but usually 5% tops.

but man that AF slowdown bug is a ****ing dog. i mean its almost unplayable with Aniso on. how the hell is nvidia at version 40+ on their drivers with such an open bug still visible, is beyond me and is inexcusable.

hovz what hardware do you have? what scores do you get with AF disabled on your ATi solution with just AA enabled? lets test that attitude of yours =)
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Old 05-06-03, 01:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/jcnv30r300/

Carmack isn't going to spend time programming these multiple paths if the plan is to ship the game without them. This is just again a situation wherein ATi made a very smart design decision by supporting 24fp -- good IQ and good speed. NV30 is either speed, 16fp, or IQ, full 32fp, with the caveat, as Carmack himself has noted, most users won't notice the differences between 24fp and 32fp but they sure will notice the performance difference.
Fair enough, but we still have to look at if NVIDIA will improve fp32 performance with so called "improved driver compiler technology." But knowing the way NV's been going lately, it's probably going to be a matter of too little, too late.
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Old 05-06-03, 01:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
http://www.beyond3d.com/interviews/jcnv30r300/

Carmack isn't going to spend time programming these multiple paths if the plan is to ship the game without them. This is just again a situation wherein ATi made a very smart design decision by supporting 24fp -- good IQ and good speed. NV30 is either speed, 16fp, or IQ, full 32fp, with the caveat, as Carmack himself has noted, most users won't notice the differences between 24fp and 32fp but they sure will notice the performance difference.
Doom3 engine is feature-complete and the engine and editor are gold. their just handing it to the designers and letting them build the game you will see. (which takes over a year too)

im afraid Carmack's decisions cannot be repealed at this stage except in patches.
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Old 05-06-03, 02:18 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by jAkUp
and where exactly does it say hes begun programing them???

nobody will notice 24fp vs 32fp... nobody will notice 16fp vs 24fp either.
You think he's testing their relative performances out of thin air? How exactly does one compare the relative performance of differing code paths without actually writing those paths?

As for IQ, Carmack wrote: "I would have been happy to have just 16 bit, but some texture calculations have already been done in 24 bit, so it would have been sort of a step back in some cases." 16fp vs. 24fp will probably be more noticeable than 24fp vs. 32fp.
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Old 05-06-03, 03:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbinder
Stealthhawk..

Dont you Nv types even know your own hardware? and whats going on with your drivers???

Quality mode in all current Nvidia Drivers = Ballanced mode. Which Clamps several texture stages to Bilinear Filtering, Cuts out some Blend stages etc..

The reason why this is different than Atis approach is this. You Nvtypes are always pointing out how ATi's method Shanks the AF at really odd bizzare almost never seen angles like 22.5 DEgrees. When the entire time you are so completely foolish becuase Nvidias Method shanks ALL ANGLES. As I have pointed out over and over Anisotropic filtering was never intended nor appropriate for all angles. Primarily 90' and some others. This is a mathematical principle that is true even outside the graphics world. Thus ATi's method *is* the correct approach. AS it deals correctly with the problem of Anistopy as it exsists. Whereas Nvidias method is one to hack the Filtering in several ways even on the primary angle of 90'.
Negative, pal.

What you say used to be true, emphasis on "used to." nvidia renamed the driver settings yet again, and Application = Quality now, Balanced = Balanced, Aggressive = Performance.

For someone who bashes on nvidia so much, you sure don't keep up with current events.

Also, what is this "you Nv types" nonsense. Look at my sig. Tell me what video card I have, it's not nvidia
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