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Old 05-16-08, 07:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by JigenD
Is your TV a CRT and your monitor a LCD? Last LCD I tried to use (for PC gaming) made everything look way worse too.

Now I use CRTs for both my consoles and PC. However, when it finally comes time to upgrade hopefully OLED will be out and well 'settled', if not I'll have to go plasma probably.

Yea, TVs are all CRT, PC monitor is 22" WS LCD.
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Old 05-16-08, 07:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by Bah!
If it's looking worse than an SD there is definitely something wrong. I have an Acer monitor and it looks the same with VGA on the 360 as it does playing my PC games at that resolution. Basically, it's not as nice as native 1680x1050 but it's far from ugly.

Are you using the Microsoft AV cable or some third party cable, because that could be the difference.
This looks waaaay worse. The PC games look awesome, the 360 looks horrible. Its a third party cable - but I borrowed a friends MS VGA cable and it looked the same.
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Old 05-16-08, 08:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by mailman2
I've connected an Xbox 360 to my Acer 22" (1680x1050) max res monitor via the VGA cable. However, GTA IV just looks awful, as do the other games I have. Today I connected to my 13" TV and was blown away, at 480P it looks so much better than any other res on my monitor. I then connected to my 27" and again no blurring, no low res stuff that is really nasty on the Acer 22" - even though neither TV are HD.

YES. My friend and I are convinced GTA4 uses a different rendering path for CRTs. We think since it only has to render 480p, the game is able to use more graphic bells and whistles whereas on 720p, the game has to cheat and use rendering shortcoming to maintain frame rates. GTA4 looks astoundingly better on CRTs, period.
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Old 05-16-08, 08:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by Destroy
YES. My friend and I are convinced GTA4 uses a different rendering path for CRTs. We think since it only has to render 480p, the game is able to use more graphic bells and whistles whereas on 720p, the game has to cheat and use rendering shortcoming to maintain frame rates. GTA4 looks astoundingly better on CRTs, period.
There are HD CRTs you know (I have one). However the game does render differently in 480p, I think I heard it renders 720p then downscales, so the image quality is much better than if it rendered at 480p with just 2 or 4xAA. This is going to make the image look better, but it won't be rendering more stuff.

As far as the whole display thing, there's a few more things I can think of. You say your PC games look great but the 360 doesn't. First off, consoles are going to output differently than PCs. If you have HDMI output on your 360 you could turn on extended RGB, if not you might be best off tweaking display settings. VGA/HDMI/DVI flatten images more than component as well (I don't understand why, but I've seen some tests done).

Another thing I wonder about, what resolution are you setting the 360 at? For example, the 360 might render an image at 1280x720, then have to scale it to 1280x960 for your monitor, then it gets scaled again by your monitor to go to the native resolution (just an example).
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Old 05-17-08, 11:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

So I went and bought a MS VGA HD cable and its the same blurry mess. I even dropped the resolution from anything to 480 and guess what - it looks the same. the problem is that GTA IV is not coming over the VGA in HD, in fact I believe its coming over at 640 the entire time using the VGA cables. Oh and it's not the console cause I tried another console to my monitor and GTA IV was still the same sad blurry mess.

Burnout Paradise looks fine on the 22" monitor but no matter what GTA IV looks like blurry crap. Oh well I'm picking up a 20" TV to put the 360 on, problem solved. Too bad though my 22" Acer looks phenomenal for PC games.
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Old 05-17-08, 04:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mailman2
So I went and bought a MS VGA HD cable and its the same blurry mess. I even dropped the resolution from anything to 480 and guess what - it looks the same. the problem is that GTA IV is not coming over the VGA in HD, in fact I believe its coming over at 640 the entire time using the VGA cables. Oh and it's not the console cause I tried another console to my monitor and GTA IV was still the same sad blurry mess.

Burnout Paradise looks fine on the 22" monitor but no matter what GTA IV looks like blurry crap. Oh well I'm picking up a 20" TV to put the 360 on, problem solved. Too bad though my 22" Acer looks phenomenal for PC games.
So let me get this straight

You believe GTA is not coming over in HD

So you change your monitor to the EXACT same resolution that a normal SD TV would be using, and it's still blurry. And yet a CRT TV getting that resolution coming in, isn't blurry

I hate to break it to you buddy, but that's a sign of a bad monitor, not game. If the game is blurry on a monitor at the same resolution that it's blurry on with your CRT, don't blame the game. OR the Xbox for that matter. Your monitor could be screwing around with internal scaling at the same time the Xbox is trying to scale. Is Halo 3 blurry? That's a game certified to run at a lower resolution than 720. If it's not blurry, then "lower resolution" isn't GTAs problem

GTA over VGA here looks fine. It's not as nice as my roommates CRT, but that's because of contrast differences between CRT and LCD, as well as the difference between upscalled jaggies and downscalled jaggies. No blur though

K
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Old 05-17-08, 05:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by kev13dd
So let me get this straight

You believe GTA is not coming over in HD

So you change your monitor to the EXACT same resolution that a normal SD TV would be using, and it's still blurry. And yet a CRT TV getting that resolution coming in, isn't blurry

I hate to break it to you buddy, but that's a sign of a bad monitor, not game. If the game is blurry on a monitor at the same resolution that it's blurry on with your CRT, don't blame the game. OR the Xbox for that matter. Your monitor could be screwing around with internal scaling at the same time the Xbox is trying to scale. Is Halo 3 blurry? That's a game certified to run at a lower resolution than 720. If it's not blurry, then "lower resolution" isn't GTAs problem

GTA over VGA here looks fine. It's not as nice as my roommates CRT, but that's because of contrast differences between CRT and LCD, as well as the difference between upscalled jaggies and downscalled jaggies. No blur though

K

Really a bad monitor, huh? I've connected to two different monitors, same thing. With two different VGA HD cables, same thing. But I connect to either TV via component and it looks good.

Yea, my PCs are connected to the monitors and even through VGA look phenomenal.

The monitors are fine. The 360 is doing something. Oh, Burnout Paradise looks great through the same cables, same monitors.

Doesn't matter, wife picked me up a 20" flatscreen TV and all is fine now
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Old 05-19-08, 09:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

Now dont get me wrong i love gta but i think it looks like a blurry jaggy mess anyway in comparison to most games on 360 and ps3.

Ive got used to it now but when i first played it i thought it looked awfull.

I dont understand why they have given us the option to alter bloom on a console game either but i had to move it down a couple of notches which imo makes the game look much nicer.

Its a shame they couldnt do this game at a higher res now on the current gen systems. they might be able to on the next gta maybe while their still getting used to the new technology or whatever. hopem they do!

The city does look amazing though even in its current state of jaggies and blurr.

Just my opinion
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Old 05-20-08, 02:21 AM   #21
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

Mailman2>>
Gta4 renders internally at 720p on 360, and 630p on ps3

I also game on my 22" flatscreen with the official vga cable, I think it looks ok over all. Gta4 though have rather toned down gfx (poor) compared to other games, but then again, you can take a chopper and fly around the city for a very nice view.

I tried gaming at lowest resolution too to see if I could notice any better framerates but I could not notice any difference, hence I think the game just downscales in such cases, so it's still 720p (there are games where you do get better framrates by dropping the res, like Tombraider and Two Worlds)

I was thinking maybe the game looks ugly to you as the image is not a pixel perfect match for your flatscreen, CRT's dont suffer from this and will look smoother.
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Old 05-20-08, 11:20 AM   #22
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

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Originally Posted by DJMONDY
I dont understand why they have given us the option to alter bloom on a console game either but i had to move it down a couple of notches which imo makes the game look much nicer.
Wait, wha? Where is there an option to adjust bloom in GTA4?? Did I somehow miss it in my PS3 menus?
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Old 05-21-08, 01:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

Yeah, GTA4 looks lame in my 19LCD WS monitor too.. Other games like Eternal Sonata and DMC4 looks great though
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Old 05-22-08, 10:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: 360 via VGA looks like crap next to even a 13" TV.

Picked up a relatively cheap 20" flat screen, connected through S-video now, looks worlds better.
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