who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver?

Mr.A · 06-23-08, 02:54 PM

So I would like to know who is willing to switch to AMD or Intel in the near future (1-2 years), if NVIDIA doesn't provide the community with documentation or open source driver.
With "provide" I don't mean that they should open there binary driver. I think they should develop a new open source driver. Now is the time! If NVIDIA is waiting to long they will loose there market share to AMD and Intel.

I will help you to make the right decision ;-)
This is a list of features that will appear in the near future or exist already.

Feature____Intel___NVIDIA
DRI2_______yes_____no
GEM_______yes_____no
KMS_______yes_____no
Gallium3D___yes_____no
xvmc______yes_____no (geforce8+)
Xrand1.2+__yes_____no

The results for AMD would look similar. They are actively working on open source drivers.
The problem here is that NVIDIA can not support this features with there binary drivers.

If you don't know anything about these technologies, then it is time that you get some knowledge about them.

And by the way the kernel hackers don't like closed source drivers too.
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Ke...iver_Statement
I think they are totally right.

I know that you couldn't compare all graphics chips with each other.
Please don't comment like "hey, but NVIDIA has more 3D power" or something like that.
That is not the question here.
As I see it, for me it is more important that I have a system that is simply working.
Good Video playback and Composite (compiz). I really think that all these technologies will bring a great graphics experience to linux and it will be better than what we get today from NVIDIA.

eliwap · 06-23-08, 03:37 PM

You're quite right about us just wanting the drivers to work. For me, it makes no never mind if they're open or closed source as long as they work and they work well.

Mr.A · 06-23-08, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliwap

You're quite right about us just wanting the drivers to work. For me, it makes no never mind if they're open or closed source as long as they work and they work well.

So I am wondering why you are using linux if you don't mind if you have to use closed source driver.

Have you taken the time to read this statement?
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Ke...iver_Statement

The open source development model has so many benefits.
You will never have a system that is working out of the box with closed source drivers.

All I can say is FREE YOUR MIND.

Regards
Mr.A

pe1chl · 06-23-08, 04:13 PM

I thought you were doing a poll to see what other people's opinions are.
When you just want to push your own opinions as superior to others', then why are you doing a poll?
I have another comment you probably don't like: Intel is not making videocards or chips for videocards. They only have motherboard chipsets with integrated video.
This does not fit into larger systems, or fulfill the need for mult-screen and DVI setups.
Even my low-end nvidia 8500GT has more output options than I ever have seen on a widely available motherboard.
But again, you don't want to hear that.

aesaeion · 06-23-08, 04:20 PM

I have dual 8800GTS right now and the new AMD 4870s are looking very nice. I have been watching the free drivers progress for the AMD cards and once they get good enough for what I need I will switch. My experience is that open drivers with support from the vendor always end up being better long term then closed drivers. With two cards and 4 monitors I still don't think the AMD 4870s can do compiz across all 4 heads since xinerama does not work with compiz and xrandr 1.2 does not support that either. However when xrandr does support it I would expect the AMD cards to get support FAR faster the the nvidia ones. However even without that they have better render acceleration, video acceleration and many other useful features.

I want to work with well supported cards and a closed driver is just not as well supported as an open driver that comes with the system and vendor support. If nvidia does a truly open driver and it starts getting real support I would then consider nvidia again but right now my next cards will be AMD and probably in the next few months.

_john_i_ · 06-23-08, 04:23 PM

I voted yes I would switch, but if a 3rd party opensource driver for nvidia (i.e. Nouveau) can provide good drivers, I would not. Doesn't necessarily have to come from nvidia, though that would be ideal.

ledoc · 06-23-08, 04:36 PM

I would switch, too. It's not so much about open vs closed source, but it is becoming more and more obvious that it is too big a job for 2-3 full-time people @ nvidia to write/update/extend/maintain something as complicated as a GPU driver for N generations of chips.
I say that in appreciation of the effort those guys are making with keeping things up-to-date with new kernel and Xorg versions and alike.

bacon12 · 06-23-08, 04:39 PM

IDK as long as they work as expected....

Mr.A · 06-23-08, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pe1chl

I thought you were doing a poll to see what other people's opinions are.
When you just want to push your own opinions as superior to others', then why are you doing a poll?
I have another comment you probably don't like: Intel is not making videocards or chips for videocards. They only have motherboard chipsets with integrated video.
This does not fit into larger systems, or fulfill the need for mult-screen and DVI setups.
Even my low-end nvidia 8500GT has more output options than I ever have seen on a widely available motherboard.
But again, you don't want to hear that.

I am willing to hear everything that people are writing.
But I have to say my "slogan" is "Prove everything, and keep the best".

I don't want to push my opinion.

Sometimes I have got the feeling that I was not clear enough so I *underline* my opinion so that others can think twice about there own opinion and maybe change there mind.

I knew that someone will pop up and say hey (full fill my needs...).....(see initial post).

Intel is planing to offer a graphics card (Larrabee) and AMD has high-end solutions.
I know that the drivers are not there yet. That is the reason why I am talking about the near future.

The point is that Intel and AMD are developing open source drivers.

Do you have some knowledge about the technologies that I have mentioned?
NVIDIA is misses the "train" I think, and the general benefits from an open source development model.

Regards
Mr.A

WhiteDwarf · 06-23-08, 04:57 PM

I voted "No" on this poll as NVIDIA's decision to provide an open driver or specifications is irrelevant to me. The features and performance of the available drivers is what matters to me, not whether it is open source or not.

I will switch to an AMD/Intel card open source driver only if it provides the features and performance of the NVIDIA closed source drivers. Working "out of the box" is meaningless to me if it does not support the features I want. In this case, that is a good, well performing OpenGL implementation including S3TC support and extensions to use the newest features available (such as geometry shaders, bindable uniforms, etc). Last I had checked, the open drivers still don't even have OpenGL 2.0 support (a 4 year old specification). Having access to a general purpose API like CUDA is also something that is important to me.

Of course, not everything in the current driver is perfect. RandR 1.2 support is something I have wanted for quite a while. 2D performance is slightly worse on my 8800 than my 7800, but it is still acceptable (note that I am not experiencing those 2d performance issues that others are). Video acceleration would be nice, but I see that being a result of the lack of a standard video acceleration API for high definition content for NVIDIA to target.

All that being said, for systems that I only need 2D support I already use integrated Intel graphics as the open drivers do provide everything I need and the cost of an integrated video chipset is small compared to an add-in board, but they just don't cut it in a development environment dependent on a complete OpenGL 2.0 (and beyond) implementation or for doing GPGPU computing.

jcornwall · 06-23-08, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteDwarf

I voted "No" on this poll as NVIDIA's decision to provide an open driver or specifications is irrelevant to me. The features and performance of the available drivers is what matters to me, not whether it is open source or not.

Agreed.

I'd like to see NVIDIA open source their driver but it's their decision and they have valid reasons for keeping it closed. Good performance is all that I care about and that is enough to push me to an AMD card, although CUDA is holding me in the short term. (I might just slave that card eventually if 2D performance does not improve.)

In an ideal world we'd have an open source driver. We'd also have open source hardware and business secrets and patents wouldn't impact our quality of experience. But it's not an ideal world and it's all about finding the right compromise. I care more about being able to modify the desktop software, which I can do easily in Linux, than I do the driver.

iloncar · 06-23-08, 06:41 PM

I would like nvidia to open source their drivers, but my reasons are:

- i would like to have support for old graphic cards 2 or 3 years from now when newer kernels and x.org extensions replace the ones we have now

- i would like to have working suspend and hibernate on my notebook

- they could possibly get some help from the outside and provide us better support

I'm not a gamer. I need fast and stable 2D. The only 3D I see are compiz effects. I don't know what are nvidia's reasons not to open source their drivers but I will respect their conclusion.

View Poll Results: who is willing to switch to AMD/Intel in the near future?
Yes, I'm willing to swich	146	85.38%
NO, I won't switch	25	14.62%
Voters: 171. You may not vote on this poll

06-23-08, 02:54 PM	#1
Mr.A Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 62	who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? So I would like to know who is willing to switch to AMD or Intel in the near future (1-2 years), if NVIDIA doesn't provide the community with documentation or open source driver. With "provide" I don't mean that they should open there binary driver. I think they should develop a new open source driver. Now is the time! If NVIDIA is waiting to long they will loose there market share to AMD and Intel. I will help you to make the right decision ;-) This is a list of features that will appear in the near future or exist already. Feature____Intel___NVIDIA DRI2_______yes_____no GEM_______yes_____no KMS_______yes_____no Gallium3D___yes_____no xvmc______yes_____no (geforce8+) Xrand1.2+__yes_____no The results for AMD would look similar. They are actively working on open source drivers. The problem here is that NVIDIA can not support this features with there binary drivers. If you don't know anything about these technologies, then it is time that you get some knowledge about them. And by the way the kernel hackers don't like closed source drivers too. http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Ke...iver_Statement I think they are totally right. I know that you couldn't compare all graphics chips with each other. Please don't comment like "hey, but NVIDIA has more 3D power" or something like that. That is not the question here. As I see it, for me it is more important that I have a system that is simply working. Good Video playback and Composite (compiz). I really think that all these technologies will bring a great graphics experience to linux and it will be better than what we get today from NVIDIA.

06-23-08, 03:37 PM	#2
eliwap Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 84	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? You're quite right about us just wanting the drivers to work. For me, it makes no never mind if they're open or closed source as long as they work and they work well.

06-23-08, 04:13 PM	#4
pe1chl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,026	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I thought you were doing a poll to see what other people's opinions are. When you just want to push your own opinions as superior to others', then why are you doing a poll? I have another comment you probably don't like: Intel is not making videocards or chips for videocards. They only have motherboard chipsets with integrated video. This does not fit into larger systems, or fulfill the need for mult-screen and DVI setups. Even my low-end nvidia 8500GT has more output options than I ever have seen on a widely available motherboard. But again, you don't want to hear that.

06-23-08, 04:20 PM	#5
aesaeion Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 25	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I have dual 8800GTS right now and the new AMD 4870s are looking very nice. I have been watching the free drivers progress for the AMD cards and once they get good enough for what I need I will switch. My experience is that open drivers with support from the vendor always end up being better long term then closed drivers. With two cards and 4 monitors I still don't think the AMD 4870s can do compiz across all 4 heads since xinerama does not work with compiz and xrandr 1.2 does not support that either. However when xrandr does support it I would expect the AMD cards to get support FAR faster the the nvidia ones. However even without that they have better render acceleration, video acceleration and many other useful features. I want to work with well supported cards and a closed driver is just not as well supported as an open driver that comes with the system and vendor support. If nvidia does a truly open driver and it starts getting real support I would then consider nvidia again but right now my next cards will be AMD and probably in the next few months.

06-23-08, 04:23 PM	#6
_john_i_ gtx260/8200M G/DIY Linux Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, TX USA Posts: 132	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I voted yes I would switch, but if a 3rd party opensource driver for nvidia (i.e. Nouveau) can provide good drivers, I would not. Doesn't necessarily have to come from nvidia, though that would be ideal.

06-23-08, 04:36 PM	#7
ledoc Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 285	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I would switch, too. It's not so much about open vs closed source, but it is becoming more and more obvious that it is too big a job for 2-3 full-time people @ nvidia to write/update/extend/maintain something as complicated as a GPU driver for N generations of chips. I say that in appreciation of the effort those guys are making with keeping things up-to-date with new kernel and Xorg versions and alike.

06-23-08, 04:39 PM	#8
bacon12 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,895	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? IDK as long as they work as expected....

06-23-08, 04:57 PM	#10
WhiteDwarf Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 29	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I voted "No" on this poll as NVIDIA's decision to provide an open driver or specifications is irrelevant to me. The features and performance of the available drivers is what matters to me, not whether it is open source or not. I will switch to an AMD/Intel card open source driver only if it provides the features and performance of the NVIDIA closed source drivers. Working "out of the box" is meaningless to me if it does not support the features I want. In this case, that is a good, well performing OpenGL implementation including S3TC support and extensions to use the newest features available (such as geometry shaders, bindable uniforms, etc). Last I had checked, the open drivers still don't even have OpenGL 2.0 support (a 4 year old specification). Having access to a general purpose API like CUDA is also something that is important to me. Of course, not everything in the current driver is perfect. RandR 1.2 support is something I have wanted for quite a while. 2D performance is slightly worse on my 8800 than my 7800, but it is still acceptable (note that I am not experiencing those 2d performance issues that others are). Video acceleration would be nice, but I see that being a result of the lack of a standard video acceleration API for high definition content for NVIDIA to target. All that being said, for systems that I only need 2D support I already use integrated Intel graphics as the open drivers do provide everything I need and the cost of an integrated video chipset is small compared to an add-in board, but they just don't cut it in a development environment dependent on a complete OpenGL 2.0 (and beyond) implementation or for doing GPGPU computing.

06-23-08, 06:41 PM	#12
iloncar Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5	Re: who is willing to switch in favor of opensource driver? I would like nvidia to open source their drivers, but my reasons are: - i would like to have support for old graphic cards 2 or 3 years from now when newer kernels and x.org extensions replace the ones we have now - i would like to have working suspend and hibernate on my notebook - they could possibly get some help from the outside and provide us better support I'm not a gamer. I need fast and stable 2D. The only 3D I see are compiz effects. I don't know what are nvidia's reasons not to open source their drivers but I will respect their conclusion.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)