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Old 07-04-08, 04:58 AM   #13
GrantsV
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Angry Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Its no rumor. Let me illustrate the point. I just switched back to VESA drivers and my desktop is perceptable twice as quick than NVidia drivers with my 8600GT. I am measuring this by scrolling around bloated web browser pages, and dragging window around with contents displayed. With Vesa drivers, the CPU isnt getting slammed either.

Under a selection of NVidia drivers, I get lag where the windows literally trail behind as they redraw, it is that slow. You can see Gnome menus being drawn on screen. With Vesa drivers, is only just perceptible, however it is still nowhere near as good as Windows, which for all purposes is instantaneous on the Desktop so long as you have the RAM and no other bottlenecks (e.g. clean install).

It is definitely a driver bug, and GTK cant be blamed because it is instantaneous with ATI and Intel cards. Its NVidia's drivers alone.

Btw, I have Render enabled and other XORG options switched on. I am hearing a few 8800 owners who are very happy, so maybe that card handles it ok.
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Old 07-04-08, 11:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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Originally Posted by GrantsV View Post
It is definitely a driver bug, and GTK cant be blamed because it is instantaneous with ATI and Intel cards. Its NVidia's drivers alone.
I am no nvidia fanboy and I am critizing nvidia for its low performance for a long time, however the picture is not black-and-white, its gray.

Fact is, that GTK makes it really hard to accalerate it well in hardware - because of some stupid design descisions.

- AMD's proprietary drivers don't suffer because they are XAA and let the CPU basically do all the work.
- Intel cards are *all* shared memory, so when the driver hits a fallback it hurts way less. (NVidia shared memory GPUs also perform way better).

Both, the drivers and the toolkits need to improve to fix the broken situation.

lg Clemens
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Old 07-04-08, 12:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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Originally Posted by GrantsV View Post
Its no rumor. Let me illustrate the point. I just switched back to VESA drivers and my desktop is perceptable twice as quick than NVidia drivers with my 8600GT. I am measuring this by scrolling around bloated web browser pages, and dragging window around with contents displayed. With Vesa drivers, the CPU isnt getting slammed either.

Under a selection of NVidia drivers, I get lag where the windows literally trail behind as they redraw, it is that slow. You can see Gnome menus being drawn on screen. With Vesa drivers, is only just perceptible, however it is still nowhere near as good as Windows, which for all purposes is instantaneous on the Desktop so long as you have the RAM and no other bottlenecks (e.g. clean install).

It is definitely a driver bug, and GTK cant be blamed because it is instantaneous with ATI and Intel cards. Its NVidia's drivers alone.

Btw, I have Render enabled and other XORG options switched on. I am hearing a few 8800 owners who are very happy, so maybe that card handles it ok.
I guess I have a hard time relating because I haven't had this problem?

I had a 6600 prior to this 8800 and it too performed flawlessly. I can have a movie playing on a desktop and roll the cube and watch the movie continue on flawlessly. I have transparency enabled on MANY different programs and the ONLY time I noticed a "hit" to my CPU was with RenderAccel disabled; there was a marked difference in performance.
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Old 07-04-08, 12:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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...I can have a movie playing on a desktop and roll the cube and watch the movie continue on flawlessly....
We are talking about 2d performance, there is no doubt than nvidia is doing a good job at OpenGL, but normal desktop performance under newer desktops (like KDE4 without effects) is not so good.
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Old 07-04-08, 12:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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We are talking about 2d performance, there is no doubt than nvidia is doing a good job at OpenGL, but normal desktop performance under newer desktops (like KDE4 without effects) is not so good.
OK, this is issue is for those who are NOT running Compiz-Fusion then?

FWIW, my root terminal was extremely fast (2D) with both cards......... I don't use KDE, and my make.conf intentionally excludes it.
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Old 07-04-08, 01:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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Originally Posted by OVERKILL8 View Post
I guess I have a hard time relating because I haven't had this problem?

I had a 6600 prior to this 8800 and it too performed flawlessly. I can have a movie playing on a desktop and roll the cube and watch the movie continue on flawlessly. I have transparency enabled on MANY different programs and the ONLY time I noticed a "hit" to my CPU was with RenderAccel disabled; there was a marked difference in performance.
It looks like you don't know what GrantsV is talking about (sic!). Turn compiz-fussion off then scroll pages with Firefox and watch CPU usage. When I drag selection box on my desktop CPU usage is over 90%, KDE4 is terribly slow etc. And one more thing. If you don't have any problems why are you littering in this thread?
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Old 07-04-08, 01:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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It looks like you don't know what GrantsV is talking about (sic!). Turn compiz-fussion off then scroll pages with Firefox and watch CPU usage. When I drag selection box on my desktop CPU usage is over 90%, KDE4 is terribly slow etc. And one more thing. If you don't have any problems why are you littering in this thread?
1. You don't need to be rude.

2. I just killed Compiz via metacity --replace and I don't have that issue. No CPU usage spike scrolling this forum.

3. I just moved a Nautilus window all over my desktop with no big increase in CPU use. Hence my question as to this only affecting 8600 cards.

4. I have not always run Compiz or Beryl, and I don't ever recall coming across a serious 2D performance issue in Linux with NVidia cards, which is why I was curious as to this being card or configuration related. I was not implying indignation with my response that I could not relate, rather it was curiosity in regard to this situation, since I don't seem to suffer from the same issue, even with Compiz-Fusion not running.
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Old 07-04-08, 02:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Its generally 8 series or higher cards that have this problem. People with 8800 and the like might experience problems but will usually have the brute force power in cpu and gpu to mask this effect.

People with 8600 and lower will have more modest hardware and as a result this tends to be much more noticeable.

what we don't like is the fact that people with even more modest intel igp's (and cpu etc) have much better performance (well I wouldn't actually mind... if the nvidia performance was alright)
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Old 07-04-08, 02:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

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Its generally 8 series or higher cards that have this problem. People with 8800 and the like might experience problems but will usually have the brute force power in cpu and gpu to mask this effect.

People with 8600 and lower will have more modest hardware and as a result this tends to be much more noticeable.

what we don't like is the fact that people with even more modest intel igp's (and cpu etc) have much better performance (well I wouldn't actually mind... if the nvidia performance was alright)
OK, that makes sense. So the reason I didn't see this issue on my 6600 was because it was a 6-series card then? Interesting that the issue is isolated to 8xxx + series hardware from what you've said.

Somebody else mentioned that he had heard of it not happening on the 8800 as well, which prompted some curiosity on my part.

Obviously this is a real issue, but I wonder if it would not be prudent for those experiencing the performance hit to perhaps install Compiz-fusion so that at least they have a responsive desktop for the time being. It seems the general consensus is that 3D performance is stellar, so I would imagine this would at least make things "nice" for those affected by this in the interim until NVidia rectifies the issue.

I know it's not a solution, but would perhaps work as a stop-gap until resolve is found.
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Old 07-04-08, 03:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

@OVERKILL8

Maybe you've got some 'tricks' in your xorg.conf which makes things faster?
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Old 07-04-08, 04:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Thanks for all your replies guys. I posted this over at Ubuntuforums.org and got a few replies all saying they had no problem except one guy. There are a few here who don't see a problem also.

Either:
1) Some Nvidia cards brute force through the issue.
2) There is a setting in every one of my xorg's in every distro I've used that is amiss that is killing my NVidia card and no one elses (unlikely, since I have an ATI running perfect in the same building)
3) The deniers dont realise their 2D perf is running dog slow!! (no offense, but likely)

If I didnt have an ATI and an Intel card sat here, on same motherboard, RAM, CPU - running the same distro, I wouldnt have realised how bad my NVidia is. There are many posts on forums saying how Linux is slower than Windows, and many people blame Ubuntu etc because its "bloated".

The point of my post is that I think there are many mis-diagnoses blaming everything from Linux itself, to bloated distributions and Firefox3, only because there is little knowledge of an existence of a major NVidia driver issue.

Take care
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Old 07-04-08, 05:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantsV View Post
Its no rumor. Let me illustrate the point. I just switched back to VESA drivers and my desktop is perceptable twice as quick than NVidia drivers with my 8600GT. I am measuring this by scrolling around bloated web browser pages, and dragging window around with contents displayed. With Vesa drivers, the CPU isnt getting slammed either.

Under a selection of NVidia drivers, I get lag where the windows literally trail behind as they redraw, it is that slow. You can see Gnome menus being drawn on screen. With Vesa drivers, is only just perceptible, however it is still nowhere near as good as Windows, which for all purposes is instantaneous on the Desktop so long as you have the RAM and no other bottlenecks (e.g. clean install).

It is definitely a driver bug, and GTK cant be blamed because it is instantaneous with ATI and Intel cards. Its NVidia's drivers alone.

Btw, I have Render enabled and other XORG options switched on. I am hearing a few 8800 owners who are very happy, so maybe that card handles it ok.
try KDE. No trailing windows there.
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