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Old 11-13-08, 07:05 PM   #37
xin44
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

hi,
i have a 8800 gtx and, at first , all seems to be different with the 177 driver serie, close to perfect - but - the hang bug make me completely silly, because sometimes it comes 3 times in 2 minutes (30 sec after each reboot) or sometimes only all hours, no possibility to know when, no possibility to recover anything at all, just push the reset button and crossing fingers for the datas on the hdd (i'm working on this pc)...sometimes, just hitting a key in ooo, can freeze immediatly the display.

I monitor the temp of the card, and except after a forced reboot, shes only around 59.

Under compiz, it's the same thing, except the freq of the freeze (perhaps one per hour).

More recent is the 177.x driver, worth it becames for me.

i have another pc with a 6600 gt - unstable or slow, only with 3d (games, googleearth, ...) and some texture corruption in 3d apps, but no freeze at all.

for the 2 pc, it's a fresh install of opensuse 11.0 - and of course, no problems at all with the 173.14.12 driver except the 15 sec for resizing the console, or 2 sec hang (vid & sound) when the focus goes from the desktop to a window (and vice versa), or when the mouse is flying over the kicker...etc...

So, no, the 8800 users are not all happy, and all my money is in this card - i can't buy another one.
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Old 11-14-08, 09:43 AM   #38
SamNSane
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

I have a Dell Precision M70 notebook with an nVidia FX Go1400 card in it. This is supposed to be a graphics workstation class display subsystem with adequate performance for OpenGL applications used by architects, engineers, etc. Not a gaming card, but a solid (and expensive) general PCI Express 16X graphics solution with 256 MB on board.

I also have a Panasonic CF-R3 subnotebook with an integrated Intel display subsystem using 64 MB shared memory.

Both are Centrino systems, with the Panny running at half the clock speed and having 768 total memory vs 2 gigs on the Dell.

I'm running Ubuntu 8.04.1 and a completely identical software setup on both. Would anyone care to guess which one has smoother and faster display subsystem response with all compiz-fusion bells & whistles enabled?

But the icing on the cake is not the performance differential. It's the functional differential. I see all sorts of glitches and bugs in the Dell's display. Window decorations that appear and disappear as you type within the window. Inability, or at least slowness, to recover when the display has dimmed due to inactivity. Extreme juddering in "wobbly windows" that sometimes goes on for a minute or more when restoring a window from full screen to a smaller size. Firefox becoming unresponsive for tens of seconds. The CCMS applet itself becoming unresponsive after changing a single setting. No version of the proprietary drivers that I have tried (6 in all, with some clean OS re-installations just to be absolutely sure to eliminate configuration problems from the mix) is exempt from this behavior.

I have NEVER seen ANY of those issues on the little Panasonic. Not one of them.

And even worse is the fact that I can easily set up dual display on the Panasonic with hilariously mismatched monitor resolutions, and the fact that Ubuntu on the Panny can tell (by the position of the lid, for heaven's sake) whether I want to use the built-in screen or the external one. But not the Dell. That sort of functionality exists on the Dell ONLY if I eschew the use of nVidia's proprietary drivers (whether from repo or from direct download from nVidia) entirely. The Open Source drivers on the Dell (which don't do 3D of course, or at least not much of it) handle this basic functionality as well as they do on the machine with the Intel display subsystem.

And all of this I get to enjoy because of nVidia's business model. No Open Sourcing for them, nosiree.

Well, MY business model no longer includes nVidia. And I'm not going to be shy about discussing my reasons with anyone who shows an interest. nVidia will never hurt for lack of my business, but they'll hurt if their behavior in this matter annoys a lot of people like me. And I think it's happening.
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Old 11-14-08, 09:57 AM   #39
spion
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamNSane View Post
And all of this I get to enjoy because of nVidia's business model. No Open Sourcing for them, nosiree.

Well, MY business model no longer includes nVidia. And I'm not going to be shy about discussing my reasons with anyone who shows an interest. nVidia will never hurt for lack of my business, but they'll hurt if their behavior in this matter annoys a lot of people like me. And I think it's happening.
You do realize that Linux-Marketshare cant really compete with Windows-Marketshare?

Plus most serious workers using Linux dont really care about Wobbly Windows (what seems to be essential to keep your business up and running). Did you try running your business on a Playstation? Seems more fit imo! No offense.
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Old 11-14-08, 10:36 AM   #40
xin44
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

That's the reason why i became so nervous, the fact that we pay seems to have no importance compared to the protection of her "secrets" (if it is for protecting her industrial secret that they don't want to work with the opensource community).
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Old 11-14-08, 11:27 AM   #41
SamNSane
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Quote:
Originally Posted by spion View Post
You do realize that Linux-Marketshare cant really compete with Windows-Marketshare?

Plus most serious workers using Linux dont really care about Wobbly Windows (what seems to be essential to keep your business up and running). Did you try running your business on a Playstation? Seems more fit imo! No offense.
Why would someone make a deliberately offensive and inappropriately personal comment, and then say, "No offense"?

Serious users probably don't care much about Wobbly Windows. It's just interesting that they work fine on cheap hardware from other vendors and not well at all on expensive nVidia hardware. However, serious users may care about other features that are advertised heavily by nVidia as being good reasons for buying their hardware. I spend a fair amount of time working with various types of design software. I'd rather do it on the Open Source side -- mostly because I prefer not having my data held hostage in proprietary data file formats. I need features that aren't available in the nv drivers. Also, some extras like adjustable opacity are extremely useful. Understand now?

If nVidia's hardware doesn't work in a given environment as well as far less costly hardware, there's no reason to buy it. nVidia really wasn't doing much of a job of supporting that card on the Windows side, either. It took them darned near a year past RTM to get a decent driver out for Vista.

The observation about comparative market shares is exactly the point. nVidia is treating Linux like a red-headed stepchild. That's not an approach that's likely to appeal to the Open Source community.

I also wonder if the nVidia driver developers feelthat they're working on bastard stepchild projects.

PS: I realized that I shouldn't think of people who like Wobbly Windows (or games) as any less serious than business or engineering users. Is there a reason why a customer who plunks down his cash for a graphics system that's supposed to offer superior performance shouldn't get that performance, regardless of WHY he wanted the performance?

Last edited by SamNSane; 11-14-08 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added PS
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Old 11-14-08, 06:44 PM   #42
xin44
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

yes, no matter of the wobbly windows, i talk about 2sec hang when focus another window or 5-10 sec to resize a console or 80-100% cpu when scrolling dolphin or firefox (with the new driver, it's more than 30 dead-freeze per day with data loss) - it's really insane and ridiculous when we look now at ati or intel.

edit : i'm testing the 180.06 beta, and one bug only in 3 hours (just texture bug on all the screen BUT no freeze for the moment !!), good perf ... perhaps the end of the problems !!
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Old 11-21-08, 07:07 PM   #43
ezkde4
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantsV View Post
PROOF!

Heres a screenshot. This trailing happens regardless of Distro, window manager, compiz etc. This does not happen on Windows with the same machine, or on my ATI/Intel video with same distros. The trailing takes about a full second to clear with NVidia drivers, about half that with Vesa.
Sorry, first post, and long time linux/Nvidia user, but I couldn't help but ask you that you're complaining about that? I've seen that on every install of linux regardless of what distro, video card, cpu, etc.
I'll tell what the problem is, and most of you guys probably never notice it, but if you're using a web browser with the adobe flash player installed, that is what causes the problem. This started way back when in the early dark ages of linux, and has continued on, and will probably be that way because people insist on using flash player for crap that doesn't need flash.
My pentium 3, which has the ram maxed out on, has an nvidia fx5200 card. I run firefox 3 and kde 3 on slackware 12. I don't see your window problem near as much as having firefox crash when I start using flash for some stupid website that depends on flash for everything.

I have a laptop, a Compaq v6000 series, with a duo-core and an nvidia 7150m. Yeah, once in a great while it happens, but not much. And I shouldn't expect my laptop to run full bore stable all the time. That's just what happens.

One thing to note with linux, more so than with windows xp/vista, is that the newer the hardware, the less chance of it working on linux right away. Ubuntu has been trying it's best to make that issue go away, but by doing so, ubuntu is a bit more bloated than other linux distros. That's why I don't use ubuntu, and prefer slackware or xubuntu. The only difference between them...well you know. If you don't, then google. We're all adults here since we use linux.
But anyway, I started using linux with suse 9.1 and 9.2. I saw the same thing you see now, and I got so pissed at it happening. I know it's not just nvidia's fault. It's more than adobe's and firefox's and ubuntu's. And how you can stand fedora is beyond me, but that's beside the point.

And for compiz/beryl users, compiz/beryl require 3d drivers to run in the first place, so you should expect a slow down. Just like using the aero effects in vista, you'll see a small decrease in performance. If your games and desktop can't run stabley with it, do the smart thing and turn it off.

Oh, I'll keep buying Nvidia cards until my cousin's laptop, which uses an ati, or my ati cards can run with open source 3d drivers. That's not likely in the near future.
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Old 11-25-08, 10:14 AM   #44
xin44
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

apologize ezkde4, but compiz is the only thing that prevent the x freeze to becomes a completely dead-freeze with a hard reboot (but it freeze too !).
with the 180.08 this type of freeze is less frequent (2x) but present, and working with that is a big problem because of losing my precious data (disabling all the effects and all the other tweaks do not prevent the freeze).
I have no choice, and no matter of closed or open driver - no matter of compiz or kwin - i'm just waiting about a stable driver that runs like i've seen with some ati or intel cards.
NVIDIA is great under windows, and it's not a foolish thing to wait about a stable (first) then quick display driver under linux with AND without compiz.
(apologize for my bad english)
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Old 11-25-08, 12:07 PM   #45
JClosed
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Well - all I can say everything is working very smoothly on my system...

I am using the 177.80 drivers on a Mandriva 2009 system with KDE 4.1.2. My card is a 9600GT with 512Mb memory. At first when I tried glxgears It gave a output of 6500+ fps. That was shocking - it was the performance my older 6600GT gave on a older system with older drivers. Resizing of windows was a bit slow, so at first I blamed KDE4 for it.

Then I got the tip to place the command nopat in my boot line, and glxgears now gives something between 11000 and 12000 fps. Resizing and moving windows is now as smooth as I was used to in non-KDE4 systems. Gaming is very smooth, but that was not the subject of this thread. Anyway - his was the performance you could expect from a 9600GT.

I do not use compiz, and desktop effects are not switched on. I have no use for that kind of bling-bling, but if you cannot live without it there are some drawbacks. Enabling desktop effects do indeed slow down glxgears dramatically. Resizing and moving windows is still smooth (although not as smooth as without desktop effects).

I think the problems a lot of people have are with the 8xxx series. If you use th 6xxx or 9xxx series there are no (or less) problems (as far as I know). I did not test the 7xxx series, because I do not have a card in that range.
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Old 11-25-08, 01:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

Well, I for myself can say that the situation has improved a lot for me (with some xorg-options and the latest drivers). I am sure the devs do their best to keep the drivers up to date and working, they cannot be blamed for nvidia's linux policy.

Despite that it's far from perfect. Yes, windows fade in and fade out but it's driving me crazy everytime Rhythmbox pauses my music because of scrolling a web page in firefox. From time to time some tray icons in the upper menu bar disappear, too and I wonder why... It's pretty annoying to see the intel users getting a flawless desktop experience with their low-performance onboard chips and long battery lifetimes while having a - uhm, eh, ah - "decent" lifetime (maybe because the battery probably wasn't very expensive, additionally I have an eee when I want to go somewhere, so I dont really care about this issue) and having paid a lot more for it.

Of course, the 3D performance is great but 10fps in some 3D games are not as quite important for me as a completely usable desktop. So please fix this. We are the ones who have paid for it
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Old 11-25-08, 02:15 PM   #47
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Default Re: How many people blame KDE Gnome but dont realise its NVidia drivers????

The beta 180.x driver is much better, out KDEgames run better to with compositing on(Kbreakout, kbounce etc..)

Yes KDE4 does get the blame for being slow(thanks to the nvidia driver) and they get put off by it. The main thing is nvidia have fixed alot of the problems and things are much better now. The Problem is it's all about damage control now.
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