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Old 08-18-08, 02:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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Originally Posted by Medion View Post
The GTX260 is currently a bit behind a single HD4870 in performance, so no, not likely.





"Brilinear" filtering is an optimization meant to give near tr-linear quality, at a near bi-linear performance hit. During the GeForce FX days, NV did this whenever you picked trilinear as an option, and they caught hell for it. With the 6/7 series, it was the default option, but going to HQ settings removed it.

ATI then started using the optimization on the Radeon 9600 series (the 9700/9800 don't use it). In a test, it shows up as full tri-linear, but in a game, it uses bri-linear. It was a cheat on their part, and not one of their better days. It was discovered when people found out through benchmarks that when using colored mipmaps, ATI cards would offer worse performance.

This was confirmed, again, on the Radeon 9600XT (the only r300 card to use it), as well as the entire r400 line. I haven't heard of anything on this subject with r500 and beyond. But, the only way to see it was in benchmarks. The quality difference really is negligible. Performance increases can be substantial in some cases though.
benchmarks @ beyond 3d indicate that ati's hq af is inferior to the 8, 9, and GTX 200 series HQ AF.
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Old 08-18-08, 03:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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benchmarks @ beyond 3d indicate that ati's hq af is inferior to the 8, 9, and GTX 200 series HQ AF.
I own both brands and have first hand "eye test" knowledge.

Say whatever you want but it's very much a draw in the games I and other members of my family play.

There are a few games where you can say... hey. This looks better on ATI and a few games the other way and the vast majority of the rest would fail in a blind taste test using the most rabid of fanboys.

Your comments = teh false.

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Old 08-18-08, 03:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

Oh and anyone that was suprised that nVidia could, and likely will, re-capture the performance crown is either stupid or is new to the video card world.

These two companies leapfrog eachother all the time and nVidia just happens to have been stronger the last 2 years to some degree with ATI playing a little "late to the game catchup". They (ATI) jumped em this round and nVidia will jump em again soon.

It's called inevitable. It's not a question of IF, but WHEN. To coin a phrase.

Then if ATI has their act together, as it appears they do, they will pop out some months later with something again.

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Old 08-18-08, 03:47 PM   #16
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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This all may be true 5 years ago when NV was doing some sneaky optimizations as well. Today it is totally irrelevant.
And I stated as much, that it was an issue with GF FX and R400, but nothing recent.

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Originally Posted by buicks suck View Post
benchmarks @ beyond 3d indicate that ati's hq af is inferior to the 8, 9, and GTX 200 series HQ AF.
While this is true, it takes a keen eye on the benchmark to notice the difference. In real work, it's too close to call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post
I own both brands and have first hand "eye test" knowledge.

Say whatever you want but it's very much a draw in the games I and other members of my family play.

There are a few games where you can say... hey. This looks better on ATI and a few games the other way and the vast majority of the rest would fail in a blind taste test using the most rabid of fanboys.

Your comments = teh false.

C.
Actually CV, it's been proven that NV G80 and beyond AF is actually superior to ATI's implementation, but by a nutt-hair at best. It is possible to see the difference with colored mip-maps, but in a real world gaming environment, anyone who claims to see a difference is likely lying. I think NV overreacted a bit due to all of the G70 shimmering complaints. They could likely "downgrade" to ATI's AF implementation, get the same quality visuals, and get a small performance boost.
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Old 08-18-08, 04:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

all nvidia need to do is a 280 gx2 = job done . but i like this competition it is first time in ages that ati was the fastest but it did take 2 ati chips to beat one single chip . and i will be suprised if they do a overclocked version of that x2 card with out updating the cooler as it runs hot at idle
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Old 08-18-08, 04:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

Well, yes, it took two ATI chips to beat a single nVidia, but the prices are about the same, so for all intents and purposes, ATI has won this round.
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Old 08-18-08, 04:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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Well, yes, it took two ATI chips to beat a single nVidia, but the prices are about the same, so for all intents and purposes, ATI has won this round.

good got tobe for the best
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Old 08-18-08, 04:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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Well, yes, it took two ATI chips to beat a single nVidia, but the prices are about the same, so for all intents and purposes, ATI has won this round.
GTX280 = about 400
4870x2 = about 550

prices are not about the same
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Old 08-18-08, 04:52 PM   #21
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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GTX280 = about 400
4870x2 = about 550

prices are not about the same
Plus more power draw & heat.
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Old 08-18-08, 05:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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Plus more power draw & heat.
I don't think a performance enthusiast or hardcore gamer will care about power draw, and they'll mitigate the heat as best they can.

There are two crowds here, the ones who care about best bang for the buck, in which case, neither card is very popular, or those that care about pure performance. For those that care about pure performance, the GTX280 wins for a single GPU, and the HD4870 wins for a Crossfire setup, especially on one card.
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Old 08-18-08, 06:30 PM   #23
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

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And I stated as much, that it was an issue with GF FX and R400, but nothing recent.



While this is true, it takes a keen eye on the benchmark to notice the difference. In real work, it's too close to call.



Actually CV, it's been proven that NV G80 and beyond AF is actually superior to ATI's implementation, but by a nutt-hair at best. It is possible to see the difference with colored mip-maps, but in a real world gaming environment, anyone who claims to see a difference is likely lying. I think NV overreacted a bit due to all of the G70 shimmering complaints. They could likely "downgrade" to ATI's AF implementation, get the same quality visuals, and get a small performance boost.
I notice shimmering with my parents 1900xtx at hq af, and with catalyst ai disabled and adaa enabled.

To me the difference in the aftester look pretty big to me.

I won't be surprised though if nvidia does downgrade to ati's "hq" af. I'm sure they would've had they known that so many people are unfortunately indifferent to nvidia's superior af.

Keep in mind, ati didn't have the best filtering in mind with the r500 b/c there's no hw filtering for fp16 textures. it does it thru shaders. less than near perfect filtering is unnacceptable, imo.
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Old 08-18-08, 07:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: NVIDIA says it will win back performance leadership this year

Well, I look at it this way... since the 4870X2 is close to $600 USD; Nvidia has some room to play with in an upcoming 200GTX card in terms of production/sales cost, while maintaining a competitive edge.

Imagine for a minute, if you will, that Nvidia does the following:

2x 55nm GTX260 (I say 260 vs 280 to help keep heat and costs down) GPUs on a single PCB, running @ something like ~700-740+Mhz.

Add in 2x 1GB 512-bit GDDR5 VRAM running @ ~3600+Mhz.

Then slap on an effective cooling solution to keep temps down, allowing for high stock clocks and even higher overclocks.

Finally, price said card @ ~$600 USD.

I feel that this would be more then enough to put a major hurting on the ATi HD4870-X2 both in performance and sales. Plus, not only would Nvidia have the edge in pure power but (probably) in the software department (drivers) as well. Those factors combined could spell the death kneel for the R700 boards less ATi steps it's game up by quite a bit.

I, for one, would be more then willing to pony up over half a grand for such an awesome piece of tech, that much is certain. I am also more then sure that most anyone looking to get the bleeding edge PC components would be all over that card like Oprah on a baked ham.

...then, of course, you also have the ability to add a second or even third card for SLI setups. I can only guess what sort of performance figures one would see with a quad SLI setup with the above mentioned vaporware let alone THREE of them SLI'd together, when paired with a powerful CPU! Now THAT'S a Crysis killer for sure.

What say you?
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