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View Poll Results: Are they cheating again?
Yes 132 67.01%
No 53 26.90%
I don't have a clue by four. 12 6.09%
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Old 05-15-03, 12:40 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by DorXtar
I just finished reading this entire thread.

The best part are the coughcoughnvidiotscoughcough that posted in defense of nvidia before the words "cheating" and "nvidia" were together in headlines all over the intarweb (the last posts were around 1am this morning).

It's a lot quieter now, except for the people who are most disgusted (privately of course) with themselves for forking over so much $$$$ for their nvidia product.

The headline can even be found on the front page of this site (nVnews for those who are lost in this thread).
Your point?
Never seen Rage3d pointing out flaws in ATI's products. Bug off.
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 05-15-03, 12:41 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hanners
Elegant?

If I owned a nVidia product, I think I'd be more upset about all the man hours that must have been wasted changing the clip planes in every frame of the benchmark than anything else. Think how much work could have gone into optimising real games and applications, instead of hacking every frame of a benchmark?
Yeah OK... maybe elegant was a bit too fecund.

But there's always an alternative viewpoint and I wouldn't worry about the man hours that went into this. I would think the tools they've developed to analyse scene complexity would have made short work of this. I'd be more p*ssed at the amount of farting around they did trying to get it rendered correctly, at all, in the first place.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:42 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds
EXACTLY!
Which bit? The elegant or the other bit
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Old 05-15-03, 12:43 PM   #184
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Talking CHOMP! CHOMP! CHOMP!

Quote:
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
The alternative view is that they are rendering the scene more intelligently than it is currently. By rendering the sky last and only once and also culling (known) useles information in realtion to the view frustrum they bringing an elegant solution to the rendering.

Of course this won't work outside a fixed viewpoint, but in this case it doesn't matter. Nobody except the beta program users will ever see it. If it screwed up games as well then it would be a real nasty issue.
I agree with you in how it relates to games, but that isn't the point. The point is how it relates to the consumer deciding on which card to buy, and in that it makes a HUGE difference and is why most people are so cheesed off about it.

This isn't about how the card performs at games, I'm sure it's a whiz-bang gaming card; this is about nVidia deliberately skewing their cards 3dm2k3 score by NOT running the benchmark in the way in which it should be run to make claims about their card in relation to ATi's offering which are JUST NOT TRUE.

The 5900 FX and the 9800 Pro are looking a whole lot more like an even match up right now....and for me the cheeseball tactics of nVidia are going to weigh pretty heavily in how I spend my money!

I have to depend on THIS kind of support in the future? No thank you.


("Romp-omp-a-chomp, romp-omp-a-chomp. Romp-omp-a-chomp, romp-omp-a-chomp.")


EDITED BITS: I mispelled "cheesed"...been too long since I used it I reckon.
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Last edited by digitalwanderer; 05-15-03 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:49 PM   #185
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Default Re: CHOMP! CHOMP! CHOMP!

Quote:
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I agree with you in how it relates to games, but that isn't the point. The point is how it relates to the consumer deciding on which card to buy, and in that it makes a HUGE difference and is why most people are so cheased off about it.

This isn't about how the card performs at games, I'm sure it's a whiz-bang gaming card; this is about nVidia deliberately skewing their cards 3dm2k3 score by NOT running the benchmark in the way in which it should be run to make claims about their card in relation to ATi's offering which are JUST NOT TRUE.

The 5900 FX and the 9800 Pro are looking a whole lot more like an even match up right now....and for me the cheeseball tactics of nVidia are going to weigh pretty heavily in how I spend my money!

I have to depend on THIS kind of support in the future? No thank you.


("Romp-omp-a-chomp, romp-omp-a-chomp. Romp-omp-a-chomp, romp-omp-a-chomp.")
Well I agree with you about the consumer level decision making. It's not fair to the consumer to do such a thing. But then again its also partly the reliance on synthetic benchmarks that has allowed this to happen in the first place. It's not just the issue of whether nvidia has unfairly optimised their way to the top but also of reviewer responsibility in making sure that they are truly reviewing something as complex (and as expensive) as a graphics card and not just printing some numbers and saying how pretty the box is.
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Old 05-15-03, 01:10 PM   #186
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Default Re: Re: CHOMP! CHOMP! CHOMP!

Quote:
Originally posted by CoWBoY
No, you will just have to try out each offering yourself for a first hand experience is all.
Personally I find that to be the bestest/funnest approach too.
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Old 05-15-03, 01:10 PM   #187
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All you have to do is pick up a pc mag that has video card reviews and most only list two scores 3dmark and quake3.

So the public that reads these is a large demographic and is the target of this misguided effort to raise sales.

Remember that this was the huge release of nvidia after a major flop and they had to contend with a 9800 256mb version.

I'm sure this was an act of desperation.

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Old 05-15-03, 01:26 PM   #188
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I'm thinking more like computer shopper, computer user, those bland computer mages that aren't the ones powerusers pick up.

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Old 05-15-03, 01:28 PM   #189
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I agree with trying them myself, but I'm a little short on money and will be until summer rolls around, then I will pick up a new video card to try against my 9700.

I did just that with the geforce 4 series and the radeon 8500.

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Old 05-15-03, 01:29 PM   #190
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mommy nivida is cheating!

is this true nvidia?

well not really, its a synthetic benchmark

im appalled nividia who on earth taught u to do this!!?

ATI..

Nvidia go to your room
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Old 05-15-03, 01:41 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by volt
Your point?
Never seen Rage3d pointing out flaws in ATI's products. Bug off.
Whoa.... addressed by a mod.

Rage3d mentioned quack, which BTW was not such a horrible cheat as the current one (won't mention brand names or anything for those of more delicate constitutions).
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Old 05-15-03, 01:55 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by DorXtar
Whoa.... addressed by a mod.

Rage3d mentioned quack, which BTW was not such a horrible cheat as the current one (won't mention brand names or anything for those of more delicate constitutions).
DorXtar, please quit being a dork and play nice! nVnews is being way cool, please quit taunting them.
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