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View Poll Results: Are they cheating again?
Yes 132 67.01%
No 53 26.90%
I don't have a clue by four. 12 6.09%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-14-03, 09:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then its clearly means is not the
Drivers their Issue.
wtf?
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Old 05-14-03, 10:01 PM   #14
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A clear example of the human mind's ability to steep itself in denial regardless of logical, sound reasoning and evidence.
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Old 05-14-03, 10:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nv40
yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then its clearly means is not the
Drivers their Issue.
You're physically hurting me sides right now dude, literally!!!

Just to be nice I'll try once to explain it without being nasty:

Those "slight" errors are NOT errors, they are a deliberate hack on nVidia's behalf to NOT render some bits of the scene that wouldn't normally show up anyway.

You claim that's a "No harm, no foul!" since it isn't visibly noticable in games...but that's not the point.

This is a BENCHMARK, and furthermore it's the specific benchmark that nVidia shunned and called meaningless and said they would never optimize drivers for...and that article is VERY CLEAR EVIDENCE that they have indeed been playing very fast and loose with their driver optimizations to cheat their way to a better score.

Not that big of a deal? Well, the two big stories yesterday that I recall reading were the FX slaughtering the 9800 in Doom3 and 3dm2k3. D3 I already know the reasons behind, and while it wasn't cheating it was more a business maneuver than a fair shoot-out in card performance...but THIS one is flat-out cheating.

They're busted, and your arguments are ludicrously funny to me.
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Old 05-14-03, 10:03 PM   #16
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it was about "graphic cards" notice the title. That's ok, it will be exposed on every hardware site by tomorrow. Nvidia sure did screw the pooch this time, I guess they will can the nv35 next. Lmao.
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Last edited by creedamd; 05-14-03 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 05-14-03, 10:06 PM   #17
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It points to a driver article, hence your topic is based on this
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 05-14-03, 10:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by volt
It points to a driver article, hence your topic is based on this
The purpose of the poll was to see if people thought that they were cheating to sell graphic cards. Not cheating to sell drivers.
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Old 05-14-03, 10:14 PM   #19
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Okay fine!

Be it your way

But if people will start discussing the drivers, I'm moving it back.
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[b]Optimization guidelines by Koji Ashida of NVIDIA:[/b][list][*]Use fx12 instructions whenever possible[*]Use lowest pixel shader version[/list][url=http://developer.nvidia.com/docs/IO/10878/ChinaJoy2004_OptimizationAndTools.pdf]source[/url]

[size=1]The politics are invading the technology. We don't really like to mess with politics because that kind of adversarial relationship has nothing to do with pure technical operations and the technical specifications of what we like to play with, the hardware![/size]
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Old 05-14-03, 10:19 PM   #20
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I dont have enough time to read that article right now, but as Ive said before:

IF I CANT *SEE* THE PROBLEM, I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF THEY ARE CHEATING OR NOT.

Speed is speed. Unless my picture looks like crap, I'll take speed over fairness any day.
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Old 05-14-03, 10:19 PM   #21
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The better question is do synthetic benchmarks matter.

If you want to be really horribly anal about it, if the new 44.03s do not have any sort of IQ drop in GT4 REGARDLESS of what may happen if you freelook using the Developer Edition, it's not cheating. The benchmark runs, it ends normally, it's just faster than it would otherwise be. But at the same time, it is a fake optimization that has no place in the real world.

In my book, yes, it's cheating, because it's creating performance where performance isn't there. But at the same time, it finally proves without a doubt that as a test of game performance, synthetic benchmarks are dead. And I think it's article time.
 
Old 05-14-03, 10:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptNKILL
I dont have enough time to read that article right now, but as Ive said before:

IF I CANT *SEE* THE PROBLEM, I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF THEY ARE CHEATING OR NOT.

Speed is speed. Unless my picture looks like crap, I'll take speed over fairness any day.
You really need to read the article. Your argument makes no sense.

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Old 05-14-03, 10:22 PM   #23
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i dont think its cheating, i think nvidia just wanna show how easy it is to mess up the 3DMark scores, which people over-use it to indicate its actual gaming ability, which shows nothing important for Doom3 fans, by a combination of robust driver/developer relationship/popular games special driver treat, i am confident my nv30 is gonna work great with Doom3
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Old 05-14-03, 10:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Behemoth
i dont think its cheating, i think nvidia just wanna show how easy it is to mess up the 3DMark scores, which people over-use it to indicate its actual gaming ability, which shows nothing important for Doom3 fans, by a combination of robust driver/developer relationship/popular games special driver treat, i am confident my nv30 is gonna work great with Doom3
It's not just about 3dm - they can do this for ANY timedemo, so people can get a inflated view of performance in actual games.

It makes a reviewer's job hell.

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