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View Poll Results: Are they cheating again?
Yes 132 67.01%
No 53 26.90%
I don't have a clue by four. 12 6.09%
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Old 05-14-03, 11:13 PM   #37
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i have been spectating for awhile now and feel that i need to chime in...

has anyone noticed that once the nv35 got caught cheating, some people on this forum act like it never happend and are accusing ati of doing a hack of the same degree? then there are also those that say it is just nvidia's way of trying to show that they can optimize, yet when they were confronted with the issue, they call it a "bug" and are investigating the issue...if they were trying to prove a point, wouldnt they outright proclaim it?...

those same people that were gloating about the nv35's score in 3dmark are now condemning futuremark...you cant have it both ways

then there are some that believe that ati does poorly in games...it seems fine to me and i run it at 6xAA 16xAF 1280x1024 and i never see the screen come to a crawl...but my card must be 1 in a million, cause those people that dont own it, surely must know better
"never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience"

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Old 05-14-03, 11:19 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Nv40

ATi have plenty of Access to 3dmark2003 source code ..
while Nvidia not.. so they can "optimize" the way the want
to get better scores ,just for 3dmark2003..
i dont see ,the fairness here... at all .

so that why i dont care too much about numbers in
Syntetic benchmarks like 3dmarks /SHaders marks/RIghtmarks
and others..

they can be "legal" and at the same time manipulated
their programming to benefits more ,one IHV video card
arquitecture . (cough) PS1.4 video cards..

if Nvidia Nv30 were not delayed by 6months ,the
"standar" now in DIrectx9 will be other.

for me the real BEnchmarks are games.,
and here is where ATI now have trouble .
nVIDIA specifically chose not to be able to access the source code so thats in their hands. This is an outright cheat and is not morally right in giving the average consumer clouded conclusions of what the best video card is. But who is morally right nowadays? That is why I choose not to give my money to nVIDIA...all goes back to the GF4 MX thing...everyone cheats though, but I choose to make an example out of nVIDIA...rofl
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Old 05-14-03, 11:30 PM   #39
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3DMark itself is bad enough for average gamer who doesnt understand how good the actual game card is capable of in real world performance due to things like special path and special support, due to its a vague indication of actual real game performance.
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Old 05-14-03, 11:30 PM   #40
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Originally posted by Nv40

ATi have plenty of Access to 3dmark2003 source code ..
while Nvidia not.. so they can "optimize" the way they want
to get better scores , just for 3dmark2003..
i dont see ,the fairness here... at all .


ATI can optimize all they want yet it is Nvidia who have optimized the hell out of this benchmark to the point of creating a clip plane in every frame of the benchmark.

That must have been an enormous ammount of work. All for the sole purpose of cheating the benchmark and deceiving consumers. There is no way to sugar coat it at all.
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Old 05-14-03, 11:34 PM   #41
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Let me chime in here.

Doing this in a synthetic benchmark is totally unfair. It is cheating, as it artificially inflates scores in comparison to other cards, which render everything.

Now, is this cheating if done in GAME benchmarks like timedemos? Maybe yes, maybe no. I think if NV3x cards do the same thing when you're actually playing a game, then no, it's not cheating. Because it is representative of real world performance.

Looks like nvidia got something out of 3dfx after all. 3dfx's uber 1337 software HSR routines
Old 05-14-03, 11:41 PM   #42
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Let's not forget that nVidia was a beta member of Futuremark until December. They chose not to continue their membership because they would not optimize their code specifically for nVidia cards. As far as source code goes...do you think they destroyed all the information they had about 3DMark03? It's not like they didn't know exactly how it worked in December.
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Old 05-14-03, 11:43 PM   #43
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I wonder if Nvidia will "recall" these drivers? Not likely, but damn, that is one BIG error. I can already see all the screenshots floating aroufn the web as soon as you go "off the rail" so to speak.
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Old 05-14-03, 11:58 PM   #44
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MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I remember the day when Nvidia swore by 3dmark.I'm sure the 5900 is a kick @ss card.Why cheat???It will just hurt them more getting caught cheating.I dunno peeps but trusting Nvidia again will be a tough task.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:05 AM   #45
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so does 3Dmark difference indicate splinter cell performance difference?
No. But if they are running this hack on 3dmark03 then they could just as well run it on the splinter cell timedemos. Then it could be that the Splinter Cell timedemo benchmarks aren't indicitave of real Splinter Cell performance when you are actually playing.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:09 AM   #46
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My 3DM03 scores are the same with the 43.51 WHQL and Det 44.03's.
They might very well have a bug but it's not messing up it's score.
Now my games and 3DM01 went way up.

I think ET is just trying to stir up $h!t.

Just my 2 cents.
Also I've not see any problems in 03 myself.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:15 AM   #47
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Originally posted by Nv40
yes , but we have already sites and Users Claiming that
Nvidia latest DEtonatorsFX drivers Fixed
3dmark2003 issues...

so until you can proof me that those "slight" errors ,
replicates in EVERYONE!!! using the DEtFx ,
then i see the Extremetech report,
Baseless on non FUndamental FActs..

if those "slight" errors does not happens in everyone
using the DetonatorsFx then this clearly means is not
in his drivers the Issue.
I agree... I've run it 6 times and now I see nothing wrong.
My IQ is BETTER than with the 43.51's. Speed about the same.
Maybe 100 points higher.

Plus these are WHQL cert. They must meet MS's eye.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:15 AM   #48
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I must say that what nvidia has done is downright appaling.

Effectivly trying to pull the wool over the entire gamer community in the hope to make a quick buck.

They flipping hand crafted the PRE RENDERED culling routines to remove so much information.

What nvidia has done is invalidated the becnhmark, heck they might as well of included a prerendered mpeg of all the scenes and just stuck that in and culled the rest.

Ultimately dispicable and really is proof of my distrust of nvidia and in general corporations at large, Im sure ATi is no clean slate either.

Hypoicarcy comes to mind "we don't care about 3dmark because they wont include special rendering routines to make the benchmark look different and run different on our card"

"so we will sneak them into our drivers"
You are not your system specs.
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