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View Poll Results: Are they cheating again?
Yes 132 67.01%
No 53 26.90%
I don't have a clue by four. 12 6.09%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-15-03, 12:16 AM   #49
Phyre
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Thanks for trying the different drivers, bkswaney. I was wondering when someone was going to do that.

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Old 05-15-03, 12:33 AM   #50
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Are there any benches of the FX5900 using both driver revisions in 3dm03?

I think we'll find out eventually, this *might* be NV35 specific.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phyre
Thanks for trying the different drivers, bkswaney. I was wondering when someone was going to do that.

Phyre
They need to. But they had rather try and make a stink before they even check.

Last edited by bkswaney; 05-15-03 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:37 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkswaney
They need to. But they had rather try and make a stink before they even check.
Someone is always bitching about the sky.
All my games run faster with the new drivers.
They all look great.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:48 AM   #53
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Whether this Nvidia is cheating or not, I think it's a good example of just why synthetic benchmarks are pretty much irrelevent.
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Old 05-15-03, 12:50 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Whether this Nvidia is cheating or not, I think it's a good example of just why synthetic benchmarks are pretty much irrelevent.
I agree there. In game benches I trust.
They all look good for the NV35.
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Old 05-15-03, 01:04 AM   #55
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Trust game benchmarks because it must be IMPOSSIBLE to cheat in those

Especially doom3 that sure was apples to apples if I ever saw it !


Oh and don't forget people NVIDIA did not actually cheat.

Infact they did not actually OPTIMISE !


Nvidia claims the hardcoding of 3dmark specific prerendered culling routines into their drivers was a bug !

Don't worry tho because we are talking about the golden standard here, remember ATIs drivers are buggy.



OH DEAR did nvidia render offscreen parts like this ? Don't worry it's just another "optimisation".



Bad times for nvidia...
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Old 05-15-03, 01:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkswaney
I agree... I've run it 6 times and now I see nothing wrong.
Umm... did you even read the ExtremeTech article? Of course you'll see nothing wrong...I refer you to this quote from the article: During our testing, when we stayed "on the rail," or the fixed path through the benchmark, things looked fine. But when we went "off rail" in the developers version, we saw problems


Quote:
Plus these are WHQL cert. They must meet MS's eye.
*Sigh...* This is my third post on WHQL:

WHQL certs are to be sure that a driver will operate without conflicting with other WHQL drivers and hardware in the system. Microsoft doesn't check and doesn't care if a driver is modifying it's behaviour when 3dmark is running. WHQL is about ensuring system stability, it's not about ensuring vendor integrity. They should be honest without needing babysitting.


Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Whether this Nvidia is cheating or not, I think it's a good example of just why synthetic benchmarks are pretty much irrelevent.
The only thing which could possibly make synthetic benchmarks irrelevant is deliberate cheating. Synthetics have a legitimate place in measuring vidcards.

Last edited by ZoinKs!; 05-15-03 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 05-15-03, 01:21 AM   #57
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Cool

Well, I'll leave it at this. I'm most likly not going to buy a video card till fall anyway.
My 5800 runs great with most any nv drivers.
We will just have to wait and see if these problems did effect the score any.

B
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Old 05-15-03, 01:29 AM   #58
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bk

extremetech verified that the scores were affected by this hardcoding.

They had to hard wire each individual FRAME- that takes time lots of it by their dev team-and it is a cheat since it was done on purpose and it was done with the intent of running edmark2003 FASTER.

I just can't believe they thought they could do this sort of thing and not get caught. They did it with the second set of fx 5800 drivers too I'm sure.

wonder how deep this rabit hole goes-ut2003 time demo? SC time demo? doom 3 time demo?



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Old 05-15-03, 01:33 AM   #59
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Don't forget nvidia is still saying it's a "bug".

There is certainly nothing stopping them for hardcoding cull planes into any time demo.


Nvidia is cheating ati is not. Methinks Nvidia is trying to cover up the fact that their NV35 is actually not as good as the 9800
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Old 05-15-03, 01:35 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rogozhin
bk

extremetech verified that the scores were affected by this hardcoding.

They had to hard wire each individual FRAME- that takes time lots of it by their dev team-and it is a cheat since it was done on purpose and it was done with the intent of running edmark2003 FASTER.

I just can't believe they thought they could do this sort of thing and not get caught. They did it with the second set of fx 5800 drivers too I'm sure.

wonder how deep this rabit hole goes-ut2003 time demo? SC time demo? doom 3 time demo?




rogo
What I do not get is the 51's and 44's score about the same.
SO why did they hack the 44's? I gained maybe 100 points and thats it. Or could this be on the 5900 only?

They had to know EVERYONE was looking for them to screwup.
Like there drivers were not going to be looked at under a electron microscope.
It does not make any sense.


EDIT: I might ad that Nvidia needs to fire there head of drivers!
Heads would roll.

Last edited by bkswaney; 05-15-03 at 01:39 AM.
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