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Old 07-28-02, 09:48 AM   #37
Remi
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Default Re: NV30 pictures

Quote:
Originally posted by SsP45
I don't see why everyone is making a fuss about them. The fact is that they have nothing to do with the NV30. They were rendered in software using a 3D modeling program similar to 3D Studio MAX. Here's the link to the website where they pictures were taken from.

http://www.exluna.com/products/gallery.html

And yes I realize exluna is owned by Nvidia, but those pictures were on their website before they were purchased.

As you can see, each of the pictures was using different software. The motorcycle was built using Maya, Mayaman, and Entropy. The picture of the table and the picture of the pens were made using BMRT.
The point is rather simple:

There is now hardware assisted shading in DCC packages (DCC=digital content creation: Maya, 3ds, SoftImage).

That is valuable only if the perf. with complex models is not too bad and if the image quality is there - otherwise it is useless, and I find hard to believe that the DCC developers would have been so fast to implement support for them in their package and let the world know it if it was useless to their users! (By the way, this implies there are good chances that perf. will be real time or close to real-time with simpler models, and the models in today's games are still very, very, very (notice the emphasis?) simple).

In addition, now they own the rights to those shader's algorithms, and if they wish it they could even release them for free to try to speed up things in the developer's community.

Plain simple. What is so complex in that to understand? I fail to see it...

Last edited by Remi; 07-28-02 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 07-28-02, 10:49 AM   #38
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Well those pics are nice...but how long before you see them in a game you play? Years folks. I mean we are just starting to see the TnL unit taxed with UT2003 that the oringal GF interduced almost 3 years ago. Remember JCs comments? He was able to do all the cool things in DOOM III with the oringal GF features. His next engine will use the features of the NV30 but how long is that going to take? Fact is by the time any advanced features of the NV30 are used, we will have NV45s or higher to play with. Look at DX8 stuff that the GF3 interduced. One game so far make use of it after 1.5 years... Again I think the fact they nV is pushing the envlope is great, but lets be a bit realisitc here shall we?

Also on the perfromance of the NV30. No doubt it will be fast. But how fast is hard to say. Remember David Kurt said a 256 bus is overkill. He also stated that they want higher quality pixels not faster. I am not so sure the NV30 will be faster than the 9700 based on his comments......
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Old 07-28-02, 11:00 AM   #39
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We're not going - well at least I am not going - to rewrite past threads, I just want to remind that all what is needed is the willigness to do games with high quality content.

update: I was happy to read Carmak's quote about how he'll focus after Doom3 on the new architectures, maybe things will go faster than what I was expecting (at least there!). Good thing...

Last edited by Remi; 07-28-02 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 07-28-02, 11:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by SavagePaladin
I was under the impression the definition of vaporware was something you can't determine if its ever coming out, and I'm pretty positive nvidia will survive to the end of the year, and release it.
The definition of the word "vaporware" is depended on who is using it at the time. One individual a couple of years back claimed that the GeForce256 DDR was "vaporware" because he only could find two at his local store.
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Old 07-28-02, 11:38 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richthofen
why statring a flame war.

There is nothing to worry about. R300 will be in store around September. NV30 little later but i bet this year.

Most people who are looking for an high end card at this time will wait until both are out.
Probably the NV30 will be better. I don't know how it will perform with AF and AA and how the raw performance will be but one thing i know for sure. It will be more programmable.
In that case Nvidia has done a good job because Developers will continue to use their hardware for new games.

Concerning their track record over years now i have now doubt that they will be very competitive.
Since the day when ATI announced their DX9 part Nvidia will keep on leaking infos on their part. That is business guys just face it. Most people will wait and i think that is the best we can do no matter what you wanna buy. If you want to buy a NV30 you will wait anyway. If you wanna buy a R300 you better wait too. If the nV30 is better then i will promise you that the R300 will get a lot cheaper.

Until know both are vapoware. I cant buy a NV30 and a R300 too.
ATI did the announcment so early because they want to cripple GF4TI sales and because they wanted to be the first one with a full DX9 part. Maybe Siggraph was a reason too.
Nvidia will do the same with their NV30 leaks.

Concerning the delay we have no other info than Nvidia saying NV30 will be their fall part. Until they keep stating this the NV30 is on schedule for this year and nothing else.
excellent post.. hit the nail on the head.

I am at least waiting untill the Nv30 is out to compare it to the R700. I have no doubt that they will both be awesome cards.

Any and all information on either product is welcome. No need to whine about it. sheesh
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Old 07-28-02, 11:42 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by legion88


The definition of the word "vaporware" is depended on who is using it at the time. One individual a couple of years back claimed that the GeForce256 DDR was "vaporware" because he only could find two at his local store.
I dunno if I remember that or I'm just still insane.
but....
people
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Old 07-28-02, 11:45 AM   #43
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BITBOYS FOREVER! hahahaha
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Old 07-28-02, 12:13 PM   #44
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Those pics do NOT look like real-time.

They are most likely NOT rendered on an nv30 at real-time.

Take the fruit pic. There are many things to note.

1) look at the shadows underneath the stuff. They are either raytraced (unlikely) or shadow-mapped. Either way, they are not realtime. (notice the softness, etc)

2) Look BEHIND the objects. Notice that it is blurry.... what is that? Depth of Field. It is a VERY intensive process which is hard to do in real-time AND make it look good. I have seen SOME DOF effects on the PS2, but they are nowhere near as 'perfect'

3) Notice the subtle film grain on the image.


The bike and the markers also look a helluva lot like the default 3dsmax rendering engine.

Also, the fact that ALL the pics are exactly 400x300 is suspect.

I think these pics are BS.
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Old 07-28-02, 12:30 PM   #45
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I don't doubt it, we haven't even seen close to what the gf4 CAN do....
Not that I know, but it does have much higher color precision and according to the rumored specs TONS of pixel shaders which would make it rather easy
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Old 07-28-02, 12:34 PM   #46
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but at realtime???
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Old 07-28-02, 12:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by [Corporal Dan]
but at realtime???
Hum.... Nobody told that was realtime (unless I am mistaken?). Of course it depends on how you define realtime. Is 10 fps realtime? Is 1 fps realtime? The only thing which we really are sure of right now is that those pictures can be computed on the nv30. And that automatically means much faster than on a mere cpu because of the differences in the chips architectures.

In addition.... I would use caution before basing judgement upon what looks like possible or not in real time, because we're entering new waters and a few old rules will be good to throw overboard...

And by the way, I do not expect the nv30 to be a perfect gpu, but I do expect it to be better than the PS2...

Last edited by Remi; 07-28-02 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 07-28-02, 01:04 PM   #48
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Realtime is considered 30fps
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