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Old 05-19-03, 06:53 AM   #157
Behemoth
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i still dont think the cheat/bug inserts static or predefined clip planes in GT4, since if it just changed the clipping volume, you should NOT see all things messed up off the rail, you should see part of in-game geometries clipped away improperly, like when you play everquest you can adjust clip plane distance, it only displays LESS view frustrum with low setting it should not mess things up. so i think it is not as simple as ET think.
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Old 05-19-03, 06:58 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisRay
And you're proud of this? I'm normally a pretty big fan of your articles. But breaking you're NDA is a pretty stupid thing to do
I wasn't aware that sending screenshots was at the time. I was trying to be fair to NVIDIA by accurately depicting what was occuring - doing this in descriptions would have been pretty difficult.
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Old 05-19-03, 07:00 AM   #159
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Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that these "bugs" tend to improve performance?
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Old 05-19-03, 07:04 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that these "bugs" tend to improve performance?
nope, i do feel optimizing too much tends to introduce more bugs
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Old 05-19-03, 07:06 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Doesn't anyone else think it's strange that these "bugs" tend to improve performance?
But behemoth and my figures show they don't.

I haven't got a full set of figures though so I can not be 100%.

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Old 05-19-03, 08:15 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
We informed NVIDIA on the 8'th of May, breaking our Futuremark NDA in the process by providing screenshots from the developer build to give them an accurate deptiction of what is occuring.
Nearly two weeks with no response - Is the whole nVidia PR department on holiday?
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Old 05-19-03, 08:31 AM   #163
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Default Re: Re: Re: My thoughts on "Optimization"

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Originally posted by Hanners
Nearly two weeks with no response - Is the whole nVidia PR department on holiday?
No, at E3 (and preparing for it and all the various launches prior to that).
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Old 05-19-03, 08:34 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sazar
comparisons between ati rendered images and the default dx9 spec EXPECTED images show them to be basically the same thing... hence precision is to dx9 spec... off rail shows ati is rendering scenes as expected...

is there something else they may be doing you reckon ? I would love to hear this... since the normal method of defence here on your part implies that ati is doing something shady and so is futuremark and nvidia is the poor innocent victim which was FORCED to cheat in order to compete in this ruthless benchmark that was devised by the devil (futuremark) ... no matter than the devils little brother (ati of course) appears to be performing AS EXPECTED and meeting the specs set forth in the dx9 API...

please... do keep going... I am very interested to see where your speculation leads since we know a) ati is doing things correctly per tests conducted... b) nvidia is NOT doing things correctly per tests conducted...

I eagerly await your intuitive and technically correct response which vindicates nvidia and shows them infact to be the victims of a terrible industry wide conspiracy by which TSMC and samsung conspired with ati and futuremark and certain implanted members of nvidia's engineering team to produce products that initially did not live up to the hype and when they were 'fixed' for the most part it was then decided that the fixes were not enough... their benchmarks needed to be sabotaged...

/me pats himself on the back for getting creative here
Classic I tell ya!!!!

Maybe they didn't want the Dragon in that shot Dig
Maybe they wanted to see what she looked like in comparison to Dawn..... MAYBE we'll see some screenies of her also ( showing her wares)... yeah thats it they were undressing her for their fans......., of course they have to get the Dragon out of the way first.
Objective#1 is done!!!
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Old 05-19-03, 09:00 AM   #165
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: My thoughts on "Optimization"

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
No, at E3 (and preparing for it and all the various launches prior to that).
So what happens now since you broke the NDA?
They may have a case for legal action if it was written in the NDA.
I just pray that you read every word of the NDA and you know what you are doing.
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Old 05-19-03, 09:33 AM   #166
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Default Re: Re: My thoughts on "Optimization"

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveBaumann
we were using both the 43.45's and 44.51's
44.51? Did I miss a set? I'm assuming that's a typo and you meant the 43.51 set.


Quote:
We informed NVIDIA on the 8'th of May, breaking our Futuremark NDA in the process by providing screenshots from the developer build to give them an accurate deptiction of what is occuring.

NVIDIA HAS KNOWN SINCE MAY 8TH THAT THEY WE'RE BUSTED AND WE STILL HAVEN'T HEARD WORD FROM THEM ON THIS?!?!!?


I thought it was suspicious of them that they hadn't came forward with SOMETHING already, but you're telling me that they knew a week ago at least that this was going to break and they STILL haven't came forward with anything?!?!!?

Unbelievable, un-fricking-believable!

Their hubris knows no bounds.
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Old 05-19-03, 10:11 AM   #167
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I only read the first few pages in this thread, but that was enough. I noticed that my blurb about nVidia using data that was not passed to (making it a cheat) it by the benchmark was posted, and basically ignored by JimmyJames and others.

To JimmyJames and all others who take the attitude of "as long as what we see is fine, it's not a cheat":

BY YOUR LOGIC, the drivers can intercept the code, and instead of rendering the scene, it just PLAYS AN AVI MOVIE of the timedemo at 4 times the frame rate it was recorded at.

Please, admit to me that you agree that is cheating. PLEASE. At the same time, it fullfills your "requirement" that it looks how it's supposed to.

In short: your logic falls apart miserably.

It's the same reason why "manually" inserting clip planes based on a known flight-path is cheating. It can only be pulled-off if it takes into accout data that is NOT passed by the engine in real-time.
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Old 05-19-03, 10:26 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe DeFuria
I only read the first few pages in this thread, but that was enough. I noticed that my blurb about nVidia using data that was not passed to (making it a cheat) it by the benchmark was posted, and basically ignored by JimmyJames and others.

To JimmyJames and all others who take the attitude of "as long as what we see is fine, it's not a cheat":

BY YOUR LOGIC, the drivers can intercept the code, and instead of rendering the scene, it just PLAYS AN AVI MOVIE of the timedemo at 4 times the frame rate it was recorded at.

Please, admit to me that you agree that is cheating. PLEASE. At the same time, it fullfills your "requirement" that it looks how it's supposed to.

In short: your logic falls apart miserably.

It's the same reason why "manually" inserting clip planes based on a known flight-path is cheating. It can only be pulled-off if it takes into accout data that is NOT passed by the engine in real-time.
more i think about clip planes more i think its a bug, clip planes only clip things away, why it corrupts the viewport? by inserting clip planes at known distances you only lose geomtries beyond the manually set borders, it does not corrupts viewport, this clip plane theory holds no water, it doesnt explain why everything mess up when you switch to off-the-rail free look mode.
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